We both know who the victor was, so please be magnanimous in defeat.
Nationality vs. Ethnicity
by shahmaran » Sat Jan 27, 2007 3:21 pm
Simon wrote:Shah there is really only one reply to that:
We both know who the victor was, so please be magnanimous in defeat.
NEVAAA!
You have proven nothing but a pointless resist, where it is more than obvious that it is clearly a flawless victory!
Yet again the Turks win and the Greeks try talk themselves out of defeat!
Im sorry but it just doesnt work like that....
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shahmaran - Main Contributor
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by Viewpoint » Sat Jan 27, 2007 4:49 pm
miltiades
But you revert to attacking me personally which I can and will do also seeing you have completly ignored my prior warnings. You whole arguements are based on the past nad how to get back what didnt work if it was so good then we would not have the current situation. As you have the right to argue unficaiton I have also have the right to argue recognition. You can try and counter argue my points but personal insults are really out of order but 2 can play that game you GC shit head.
Try for one second to open your mind and understand why the new generation TCs feel that way, the south GC state "RoC" is totally foreign to us, we take no part in it and we do not see ourselves as part of it. I know more about the English than ı do about GCs which make you more foreign to me than them or even Irish or Italian.
Unificaiton as per Annan plan which you GCs rejected even a moron like you can work out that unfication to us incorporates totally different dimensions to what you consider acceptable unification. The fact that we did try to unify should also tell you that we are 2 seperate entities but stubboen old mules like you will go to the grave thinking there is only 1 shade of gray.
I am not a traitor to my country the TRNC and I am as much a traitor to the GC state "RoC" as I am to USA or Pakistan.
My birsth place does not restrict my thinking, being born in the South, Canada or South Africa doesnt make me and less Turkish Cypriot, you are showing your own warped ignorance.
What has my employment got to do with you or my posts, plus for your information my spell check does not work you GC piece of Turd.
I have every right to harshly criticize and call stupid any argument that is so totally absurd , not because is different from my views but is quite blatantly preposterous.
But you revert to attacking me personally which I can and will do also seeing you have completly ignored my prior warnings. You whole arguements are based on the past nad how to get back what didnt work if it was so good then we would not have the current situation. As you have the right to argue unficaiton I have also have the right to argue recognition. You can try and counter argue my points but personal insults are really out of order but 2 can play that game you GC shit head.
This is a forum for people , mostly Cypriots , to exchange views and put forward constructive ideas. When an idea is put forward that Cyprus is a foreign country within a country , what the hell do you expect the reply to be.
Try for one second to open your mind and understand why the new generation TCs feel that way, the south GC state "RoC" is totally foreign to us, we take no part in it and we do not see ourselves as part of it. I know more about the English than ı do about GCs which make you more foreign to me than them or even Irish or Italian.
wake up and stop pretending that you supported the Annan Plan , since you consider the ROC to be another Spain , Italy or Pakistan how the hell can you have the front to speak about unification.
Unificaiton as per Annan plan which you GCs rejected even a moron like you can work out that unfication to us incorporates totally different dimensions to what you consider acceptable unification. The fact that we did try to unify should also tell you that we are 2 seperate entities but stubboen old mules like you will go to the grave thinking there is only 1 shade of gray.
You are a traitor to your own country and your views are nothing short of a poisonous nature.Your vulgar and continued declaration that your country of birth does not exist is disgraceful
I am not a traitor to my country the TRNC and I am as much a traitor to the GC state "RoC" as I am to USA or Pakistan.
My birsth place does not restrict my thinking, being born in the South, Canada or South Africa doesnt make me and less Turkish Cypriot, you are showing your own warped ignorance.
I suggest again you look for alternative employment since your performance is as effective as tea spoon used to demolish a wall.
Your employers ought to also advice you to pay a little attention and not be in such a hurry to post another insignificant post before using the spell check.
What has my employment got to do with you or my posts, plus for your information my spell check does not work you GC piece of Turd.
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Viewpoint - Leading Contributor
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by Kikapu » Sat Jan 27, 2007 5:08 pm
Viewpoint,
Let me start by saying, that to me, your are first, a Cypriot brother and second, a TC brother. What I write regarding you, does not change that we are all brothers. But as brothers, we can also disagree on issues, that may effect us individually, or collectively our society, which are Cypriots. You want to take one path, and I want to remain where I am.
Now, regarding the "TRNC" passport issue. I have made a note to myself, to call the American, British and 2 other embassies Monday, to ask them the question of whether it is accepted or not. I believe you, when you said that you went to UK and the USA with the "TRNC" passport. Now be honest here VP. Were you on an "official trip" with bunch of politicians, or were you just with your family. The reason I say this is, because if you were in a group of politicians, doing what you needed to do in the UK and the USA, that you were given a special privilege to use those passport, which may not be available to anyone else. Anyway, I'll write a post Monday, after I find out something.
As for the "TRNC" money. That was a joke with a touch of sarcasm. You obviously missed it. Just as well actually, I should not make sarcastic jokes. An old girlfriend use to say, that "sarcasm is the lowest form of humour". I think she is right.
Once I asked whether Piratis, Kifeas and Sotos worked for the RoC, when they made the views here, and Piratis responded by saying, I was insulting him, or something in that effect. I wished they did work for the RoC, so that we can get the official line from them. Now I have a very good reason to believe, that you do work for either the "TRNC" government, or another political party. Now, I don't care if the people you work for favours Partition, that's their right to have such views, but what I object to from you is, you come on the Forum and just Propagandise everything that is Cyprus related, and quite frankly, I got sick of it. You should be able to post your views, without having to distort everything, to please your bosses, or even your own views. Just tell us the facts as you know them, don't try to shaft us, because you end up losing credibility. When Piratis talks about the "Pillars of Democracy" he gets my attention, and wins me over to his side, but when he talks about Turks as butchers and barbarians and going back to 1571, then he loses me. You want to throw me and Bir as Greeks, to live in Greek Cyprus, and that our views are same as the Greeks. My views are as an Cypriot, and that I want my country to remain as one. You claim that you are the "New Generation", therefore, you want your own "country". Wait one minute Mr. "young generation", it was the old Generation, that built Cyprus. What did the "young generation" do to deserve carving up a piece for them self. I never heard such nonsense. So I suppose, when your children grow up, they too should be allowed to Carve the "New Anatolia" into another part and call it "New Las Vegas", and sod the old timers ( that's you and me).
Prime example of your distorted propaganda. I said we can have a Federal system of Government in Cyprus, but you said, "well, the Greeks voted NO on that in the AP". Are you telling me, that was the one issue the whole plan was voted down. Plus, it was called a Federal System, modeled after Switzerland. Well, I don't know how that would have worked, since we have a Confederacy here in Switzerland. Also about the assimilation factor. 850,000 V's 250,000, was the figures you gave me. How could 250,000 ( more than half are not TC's btw) Turkish would be assimilated by 850,000. In Switzerland, there are 5 million Swiss Nationals ( 7 million in total, including the immigrants), and it is broken down as such.
69% Swiss German
20% French
10% Italian
1% Romansch.
Now, I don't see the French, Italians and the Romansh asking for their own piece of Switzerland to live in, because of their numbers. They all live in their respected areas, with no limitations as to where they can move or not. But overwhelming majority, will remain in their areas, mainly, because of language and family ties, so the same will happen in Cyprus, between the TC's and the GC's. One Switzerland is much stronger economically, that 4 separate parts.
Btw, I was not trying to be noisy, about the amount of time you spend on the Forum, but if it is part of your job, then it is also your livelihood, and I understand that. It's just that, when I spend too much time on the Forum, my girlfriend yells at me, specially when the female members flirt with me.
Lets talk issues and not propaganda my friend and fellow Cypriot brother.
Let me start by saying, that to me, your are first, a Cypriot brother and second, a TC brother. What I write regarding you, does not change that we are all brothers. But as brothers, we can also disagree on issues, that may effect us individually, or collectively our society, which are Cypriots. You want to take one path, and I want to remain where I am.
Now, regarding the "TRNC" passport issue. I have made a note to myself, to call the American, British and 2 other embassies Monday, to ask them the question of whether it is accepted or not. I believe you, when you said that you went to UK and the USA with the "TRNC" passport. Now be honest here VP. Were you on an "official trip" with bunch of politicians, or were you just with your family. The reason I say this is, because if you were in a group of politicians, doing what you needed to do in the UK and the USA, that you were given a special privilege to use those passport, which may not be available to anyone else. Anyway, I'll write a post Monday, after I find out something.
As for the "TRNC" money. That was a joke with a touch of sarcasm. You obviously missed it. Just as well actually, I should not make sarcastic jokes. An old girlfriend use to say, that "sarcasm is the lowest form of humour". I think she is right.
Once I asked whether Piratis, Kifeas and Sotos worked for the RoC, when they made the views here, and Piratis responded by saying, I was insulting him, or something in that effect. I wished they did work for the RoC, so that we can get the official line from them. Now I have a very good reason to believe, that you do work for either the "TRNC" government, or another political party. Now, I don't care if the people you work for favours Partition, that's their right to have such views, but what I object to from you is, you come on the Forum and just Propagandise everything that is Cyprus related, and quite frankly, I got sick of it. You should be able to post your views, without having to distort everything, to please your bosses, or even your own views. Just tell us the facts as you know them, don't try to shaft us, because you end up losing credibility. When Piratis talks about the "Pillars of Democracy" he gets my attention, and wins me over to his side, but when he talks about Turks as butchers and barbarians and going back to 1571, then he loses me. You want to throw me and Bir as Greeks, to live in Greek Cyprus, and that our views are same as the Greeks. My views are as an Cypriot, and that I want my country to remain as one. You claim that you are the "New Generation", therefore, you want your own "country". Wait one minute Mr. "young generation", it was the old Generation, that built Cyprus. What did the "young generation" do to deserve carving up a piece for them self. I never heard such nonsense. So I suppose, when your children grow up, they too should be allowed to Carve the "New Anatolia" into another part and call it "New Las Vegas", and sod the old timers ( that's you and me).
Prime example of your distorted propaganda. I said we can have a Federal system of Government in Cyprus, but you said, "well, the Greeks voted NO on that in the AP". Are you telling me, that was the one issue the whole plan was voted down. Plus, it was called a Federal System, modeled after Switzerland. Well, I don't know how that would have worked, since we have a Confederacy here in Switzerland. Also about the assimilation factor. 850,000 V's 250,000, was the figures you gave me. How could 250,000 ( more than half are not TC's btw) Turkish would be assimilated by 850,000. In Switzerland, there are 5 million Swiss Nationals ( 7 million in total, including the immigrants), and it is broken down as such.
69% Swiss German
20% French
10% Italian
1% Romansch.
Now, I don't see the French, Italians and the Romansh asking for their own piece of Switzerland to live in, because of their numbers. They all live in their respected areas, with no limitations as to where they can move or not. But overwhelming majority, will remain in their areas, mainly, because of language and family ties, so the same will happen in Cyprus, between the TC's and the GC's. One Switzerland is much stronger economically, that 4 separate parts.
Btw, I was not trying to be noisy, about the amount of time you spend on the Forum, but if it is part of your job, then it is also your livelihood, and I understand that. It's just that, when I spend too much time on the Forum, my girlfriend yells at me, specially when the female members flirt with me.
Lets talk issues and not propaganda my friend and fellow Cypriot brother.
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Kikapu - Leading Contributor
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by Viewpoint » Sat Jan 27, 2007 5:43 pm
Kikapu,
You can view me as you wish this does not change anything. the reality is that we have been living as a seperate country for 33 years and this looks like it will continue for a very long time to come, his you have to see and acknowledge otherwise you are only fooling yourself no one else.
The passport issue you can investigate as much as you wish seeing you do not believe me but on visits to the UK and USA I had to obtain a visa and used my TRNC passport as the travel document.
I do not work for the TRNC government and I am on no mission, lets put that theory to bed are you all happy now. I post as a normal Turkish Cypriot with very average and common views.
It is the old generation that built Cyprus for 3 years and then destroyed the old one to replace it with what we have to day, we are new generation who only know the TRNC, the "RoC" is foreign to us and we do not see a future with GCs and have to be convinced that unificaiton would be better for us than the current situation. The past 3 years have taught and continues to show that we are better off going it alone as the signs and developments confirm that there 2 sides cannot even open a crossing let alone run a country in harmony and peace.
Was the Annan plan a BBF solution? who rejected it, you will never ne able to get GCs to agree to a federal solution as this is not what they want, again they are bull shitting and will pursue the EU leverage game to get what they want and that is to enforce the "RoC" on us a GC state.
The arguement of assimiliation is always raised as a threat by GCs to TCs via Turkey but when you reverse the tables you start to argue this risk is also possbile with GCs they reply this will not happen with GCs withour any explanation I say crap to this the risk is just the same in both cases.
Switzerland is not Cyprus and the mentality and maturity there is totally different to what we have here. There is a clear power struggle here where the GCs want to use their numerical superioirty to turn Cyprus into one GC state with TCs as just another minority, which we aill never accept and why we demand safe guards to ensure this does not happen.
Im always up for talking issues but not about pie in the sky and unachievable sentimental unions but allowing both sides the right to equality, whatever the Gcs see fit for themselves they should see fit for TCs, Refugees should be given the choice to choose return or compensation, there should be a level playing field on both sides if GCs have an airport we shoudl have one if we have no army they shoudl have no army etc and then we can talk about unfication as 2 equals. Everyone should be allowed to live on which ever side they wish to be ruled by that community.....what do you say?
You can view me as you wish this does not change anything. the reality is that we have been living as a seperate country for 33 years and this looks like it will continue for a very long time to come, his you have to see and acknowledge otherwise you are only fooling yourself no one else.
The passport issue you can investigate as much as you wish seeing you do not believe me but on visits to the UK and USA I had to obtain a visa and used my TRNC passport as the travel document.
I do not work for the TRNC government and I am on no mission, lets put that theory to bed are you all happy now. I post as a normal Turkish Cypriot with very average and common views.
It is the old generation that built Cyprus for 3 years and then destroyed the old one to replace it with what we have to day, we are new generation who only know the TRNC, the "RoC" is foreign to us and we do not see a future with GCs and have to be convinced that unificaiton would be better for us than the current situation. The past 3 years have taught and continues to show that we are better off going it alone as the signs and developments confirm that there 2 sides cannot even open a crossing let alone run a country in harmony and peace.
Was the Annan plan a BBF solution? who rejected it, you will never ne able to get GCs to agree to a federal solution as this is not what they want, again they are bull shitting and will pursue the EU leverage game to get what they want and that is to enforce the "RoC" on us a GC state.
The arguement of assimiliation is always raised as a threat by GCs to TCs via Turkey but when you reverse the tables you start to argue this risk is also possbile with GCs they reply this will not happen with GCs withour any explanation I say crap to this the risk is just the same in both cases.
Switzerland is not Cyprus and the mentality and maturity there is totally different to what we have here. There is a clear power struggle here where the GCs want to use their numerical superioirty to turn Cyprus into one GC state with TCs as just another minority, which we aill never accept and why we demand safe guards to ensure this does not happen.
Im always up for talking issues but not about pie in the sky and unachievable sentimental unions but allowing both sides the right to equality, whatever the Gcs see fit for themselves they should see fit for TCs, Refugees should be given the choice to choose return or compensation, there should be a level playing field on both sides if GCs have an airport we shoudl have one if we have no army they shoudl have no army etc and then we can talk about unfication as 2 equals. Everyone should be allowed to live on which ever side they wish to be ruled by that community.....what do you say?
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Viewpoint - Leading Contributor
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by miltiades » Sat Jan 27, 2007 6:40 pm
KIKAPU WROTE:
"""""""Now I have a very good reason to believe, that you do work for either the "TRNC" government, or another political party. Now, I don't care if the people you work for favours Partition, that's their right to have such views, but what I object to from you is, you come on the Forum and just Propagandise everything that is Cyprus related, and quite frankly, I got sick of it. You should be able to post your views, without having to distort everything, to please your bosses, or even your own views. Just tell us the facts as you know them, don't try to shaft us, because you end up losing credibility. When Piratis talks about the "Pillars of Democracy" he gets my attention, and wins me over to his side, but when he talks about Turks as butchers and barbarians and going back to 1571, then he loses me. You want to throw me and Bir as Greeks, to live in Greek Cyprus, and that our views are same as the Greeks. My views are as an Cypriot, and that I want my country to remain as one. You claim that you are the "New Generation", therefore, you want your own "country". Wait one minute Mr. "young generation", it was the old Generation, that built Cyprus. What did the "young generation" do to deserve carving up a piece for them self. I never heard such nonsense. So I suppose, when your children grow up, they too should be allowed to Carve the "New Anatolia" into another part and call it "New Las Vegas", and sod the old timers ( that's you and me). """"
Kikapu , we are one !! I'm a true Cypriot and so are you. You are my Turkish Cypriot brother just like the the thousands upon thousands of T/Cs living in Northern Cyprus. I'm proud and immensely happy that my voice is not a voice in the wilderness but a voice echoed across Cyprus and the Diaspora , you don't know how thrilled and proud I'm to know that there are Cypriots such as you and so many others.
I have referred to VPs comments as stupid , he retaliates by """you GC piece of Turd.""" and """you GC shit head. "" he has the audacity to call my views "ignorant " Well let him read once again. The T/Cs are my compatriots they are my brother Cypriots , I do not fear them I do not consider them foreigners , I do not consider them different , I am one of them just as much as they are one of mine.
LONG LIVE CYPRUS AND LONG MAY KIKAPU RULE!!
"""""""Now I have a very good reason to believe, that you do work for either the "TRNC" government, or another political party. Now, I don't care if the people you work for favours Partition, that's their right to have such views, but what I object to from you is, you come on the Forum and just Propagandise everything that is Cyprus related, and quite frankly, I got sick of it. You should be able to post your views, without having to distort everything, to please your bosses, or even your own views. Just tell us the facts as you know them, don't try to shaft us, because you end up losing credibility. When Piratis talks about the "Pillars of Democracy" he gets my attention, and wins me over to his side, but when he talks about Turks as butchers and barbarians and going back to 1571, then he loses me. You want to throw me and Bir as Greeks, to live in Greek Cyprus, and that our views are same as the Greeks. My views are as an Cypriot, and that I want my country to remain as one. You claim that you are the "New Generation", therefore, you want your own "country". Wait one minute Mr. "young generation", it was the old Generation, that built Cyprus. What did the "young generation" do to deserve carving up a piece for them self. I never heard such nonsense. So I suppose, when your children grow up, they too should be allowed to Carve the "New Anatolia" into another part and call it "New Las Vegas", and sod the old timers ( that's you and me). """"
Kikapu , we are one !! I'm a true Cypriot and so are you. You are my Turkish Cypriot brother just like the the thousands upon thousands of T/Cs living in Northern Cyprus. I'm proud and immensely happy that my voice is not a voice in the wilderness but a voice echoed across Cyprus and the Diaspora , you don't know how thrilled and proud I'm to know that there are Cypriots such as you and so many others.
I have referred to VPs comments as stupid , he retaliates by """you GC piece of Turd.""" and """you GC shit head. "" he has the audacity to call my views "ignorant " Well let him read once again. The T/Cs are my compatriots they are my brother Cypriots , I do not fear them I do not consider them foreigners , I do not consider them different , I am one of them just as much as they are one of mine.
LONG LIVE CYPRUS AND LONG MAY KIKAPU RULE!!
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miltiades - Leading Contributor
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by Eliko » Sat Jan 27, 2007 7:33 pm
Well spoken miltiades, you are a true Cypriot (or so you say), tell me sir, what are you doing living in the camp of the 'enemy' then?, you should be over here, standing on your soap-box, ranting and raving about beards and body piercings instead of standing on street corners peddling 'hot dogs' to the tourists.
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Eliko - Main Contributor
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by Viewpoint » Sat Jan 27, 2007 8:26 pm
miltiades you are an ignorant piece of GC shit, how does if feel? taking some of your own medicine? People are not stupid and can read back on the language you used against me personally, I warned you many times that 2 can play at the hurling abuse game and I can do it worse than you if needs be, I even invited Svetlana to intervene but you continued with your personal insults so you have no right to cry wolf now.
Typical GC warped mentality they start trouble and then blame someone else for retaliating, the same in the 1960s nothing has changed, if your gulable enought to swallow the brotherly love act thats your problem. Its exactly the same brotherly love they showed in Dec 1963...... or the brotherly love keeping the isolation going to make us want a solution.
Typical GC warped mentality they start trouble and then blame someone else for retaliating, the same in the 1960s nothing has changed, if your gulable enought to swallow the brotherly love act thats your problem. Its exactly the same brotherly love they showed in Dec 1963...... or the brotherly love keeping the isolation going to make us want a solution.
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Viewpoint - Leading Contributor
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