Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

Birkibrisli

But I've never told you to assimilate into anyone,Viewpoint.

How will you stop it? lets hear your views.

The choice I see is not between assimilating with the GCs or the Turks.

That's where you are wrong the larger population will in time absorb the minority and influence them to such an extent that the minority will assimilate, this is happen with many GC and TC families in the UK.

The choice we have to make is do we want Turks or GCs which do we feel closer to?

In fact my whole argument is against assimilation. I want us to maintain our Turkish Cypriot identity for long enough till our ethnicity matters little to anyone and we are all plain Cypriots...

That's assimilation...or osmosis take your pick.

That is achieving a more mature and humane national identity.What I want is the GCs to assimilate with us and become Cypriots.Strictly speaking they have more to lose because there are more of them.

How will you manage that? thought you said we were not going to assimilate make your mind up.

Why do you and others keep calling GCs Greeks?

I don't normally but would hazard a wild guess because they originate from Greece.

They are not Greeks any more than I am a Turk

That's why you are so confused you don't know what you are or where you come from or where you want to belong.

Consider this with an open mind please,Viewpoint.It is my assertion that it would be more difficult to assimilate with the GCs because we speak different languages and believe in different prophets,than it would be to assimilate with the Turks,even without the influx of the settlers...Think about it and we will talk again when I am not sooooo tired.

You are right we are not GCs and should concentrate more on our Turkishness which is our origins. The language barrier is not a problem they could take the steps they did in the 1960 and not learn Turkish forcing the minority to speak Greek or pass laws using their majority to force the Greek language upon us.

[Pyrpolizer]

Why is it not a fear when GCs are concerned but a fear with Turks?

What Birk was telling you is that you have no chance to keep your identity in the sea of Turks, whereas you have zero chance to lose your identity in any reunification solution. For your information there is also fear spread from GC nationalists that we are going to be Turkified. But we know very well how to silence the idiots among us. Time you to learn to do the same.

the new fear and the GC stance just re-enforces everyday is osmosis, assimilation

Could you explain me this new theory? I heard this many times even Talat said something. How is this osmosis going to happen in practical terms? Or is it just another vague theory?
Btw Hran Dink the assasinated Armenian journalist spoke Turkish right? Did he lose any of his Armenian culture?

are you going to answer Pyro?

I do the same to GCs who deserve it. It has nothing to do with ethnicity. It seems you forgot when I stood by you. Yeap, I fire at everyone who deserves it. That’s why they call me Pyr.

[Pyrpolizer]

i dont think we are traders and you claiming that we should use certain factors of our nations as bargaining material

of our nations???? I really don’t know why I keep on talking with you.

And I have not met 1 TC who claimed that things were exactly "going well" before 74, you have to be dellusional to make such a claim

First of all my claim was not that, but the reference to the 2 villages I mentioned and to the fact that they live today as happily together as they lived before 1974.
Secondly you may have not met many TCs who said the situation was bright before 1974 but I met many TCs who admitted their own (communitywise) part of the fault for that situation. Like Birkibrisli said if both US and YOU haven’t learned anything from those times then we are doomed. I don’t think we are that stupid.You yourself admitted earlier that the most you would expect is some scratches on your car. I personally would expect my car set on fire at Ayios Mamas in Morphou. It is enough for me that 1000 TCs will be by my side.

[Pyrpolizer]

To give you an indication about the pre 1974 situation Shah, when someones threatens to take your political rights from the RoC you don't abandon the parliament and withdraw your Ministers and drag them all into a self proclaimed TC republic in an enclave. You stay there and fight. You tell Turkey to take the case to the UN.

Do you think TCs are so soft a people to abandon everything? No they did it because THEY WERE ORDERED BY ANKARA.

Again for your information Denktash was never popular among the TCs. He could never be elected Vice president and first leader of the TCs. Do you know how it happened. ANKARA ordered Dr Kucuk to withdraw. Thats how Denktash was elected. Perhaps you can see things clearer now, ANKARA was messing around preparing for taksim from the 60s.

When Greece and Turkey realised the British would leave they both wanted to get Cyprus. This is how it all happened, not because the GCs and the TCs could never live together....

[Pyrpolizer]

You are right we are not GCs and should concentrate more on our Turkishness which is our origins. The language barrier is not a problem they could take the steps they did in the 1960 and not learn Turkish forcing the minority to speak Greek or pass laws using their majority to force the Greek language upon us.

What are you talking about? What law did the GCs ever passed in the 60s to force the Greek language on you. What law could they pass, describe me that law.
According to 1960 constitution both languages were official and in fact all government documents were bi-lingual then. Education was separate, you Turkish education, us Greek education.

Yes you are right. The constitution did not force anyone learn or speak both languages.Is it US THE GCs who made that constitution??

My strong opinion is in case of solution is no one should be able to become government employee unless he speaks both languages . You like, VP?

[zan]

To give you an indication about the pre 1974 situation Shah, when someones threatens to take your political rights from the RoC you don't abandon the parliament and withdraw your Ministers and drag them all into a self proclaimed TC republic in an enclave. You stay there and fight. You tell Turkey to take the case to the UN.

Do you think TCs are so soft a people to abandon everything? No they did it because THEY WERE ORDERED BY ANKARA.

Again for your information Denktash was never popular among the TCs. He could never be elected Vice president and first leader of the TCs. Do you know how it happened. ANKARA ordered Dr Kucuk to withdraw. Thats how Denktash was elected. Perhaps you can see things clearer now, ANKARA was messing around preparing for taksim from the 60s.

When Greece and Turkey realised the British would leave they both wanted to get Cyprus. This is how it all happened, not because the GCs and the TCs could never live together....

The UN did send in a peace-keeping force in 1964 but it did not restore the balance. For the next ten years, Turkish Cypriots had to live in heavily guarded enclaves totalling less than 3% of the island.


They lacked the basic essentials of life and survived on relief sent by the Red Crescent, the sister organisation of the Red Cross. The ethnic cleansing continued. On 14th January 1964, Il Giorno of Italy reported, "Right now we are witnessing the exodus of Turkish Cypriots from the villages. Thousands of people abandoning homes, land, and their herds. Greek Cypriot terrorism is relentless. This time the rhetoric of the Hellenes and the statues of Plato do not cover up their barbaric and ferocious behaviour."


The tension continued. In 1967, the Greek Cypriots launched savage attacks on the Turkish Cypriot population of three villages. UN soldiers watched helpless as women, children, and old men were killed. Many were burnt alive in their own homes. Fifty houses were destroyed. Only another warning flight by the Turkish Air Forces prevented further massacres.


Negotiations continued for a settlement, but the Greeks would not budge on any key point. Their aim was a Greek Cyprus. Thus the deadlock continued till 1974.


There are only two options to what you wrote and they are that 1) \You are totaly misinformed or 2) You are lying through your teeth. I will not judge you.

[Pyrpolizer]

1st)Give us the link, so that everybody can judge who is brainwashed and who is not.
2nd)The UN send a peace keeping force. What for do you think? To help innocent civilians? Or to keep those who where killing on both sides appart?
3rd) I did not talk about going to the UN and asking them to send a peace keeping force! I talked of going to the UN as a community to report the alledged actions of RoC of forcing you out of the Government. Your community did not do so, BECAUSE YOUR MPs AND YOUR MINISTERS WERE ORDERED BY ANKARA TO WITHDRAW FROM THE GOVERNMENT, using as an excuse the 13 points proposal.

Your turn now to judge who was USING you from the 60s until TODAY.Who was actually playing with your own missery and suffering.

[zan]

Thought I did post the link sorry.

What does posting the link prove in your mind, that if it is written by a Turk then it must be wrong. You are talking out of your ass again First we take our selves out of government, which is exactly what Makarios wanted and then we get attacked time after time for it. What sense does that make? The TCs were forced into 3% of the land and held hostage because Ankara wanted to invade......laughable...it could have done that in 1963 but was told by the UN not to and that they would protect the TCs but even they were fired upon and killings went on in front of their eyes. I would like to spend just one day in your little world to see what horrors I can conjure up.

http://www.konsey.org.uk/anniversary.ht ... ormalities


Ready answers only please. You don't even agree when they are actual news reports so I won't be holding my breath.

[Simon]

What an absolute load of rubbish! I laugh every time I hear that Greek Cypriots attemped to ethnically cleanse TCs from Cyprus. In the inter-communal conflict, several hundred TCs died; hundreds of GCs also died. Where is the ethnic cleansing? TCs went into enclaves for many reasons, partly to prepare for partition. Turkey did not invade until 1974, therefore, GCs had ten years to substantially reduce the TC population, which was not all that big in any event. Surely it would not have been that difficult for four-fifths of the population to eradicate the other one-fifth over a period of more than 10 years if there was a concerted, vigorous ethnic cleansing policy. After all, the Turkish army managed removing 200,000 in next to no time. But did the TC population dramatically reduce by mass killings?

What I do accept is that there was a number of nationalists on each side that did fight during this period and others may have got dragged in. However, to then magnify this and state that Greek Cypriots generally tried to ethnically cleanse TCs is ridiculous.

[zan]

What an absolute load of rubbish! I laugh every time I hear that Greek Cypriots attemped to ethnically cleanse TCs from Cyprus. In the inter-communal conflict, several hundred TCs died; hundreds of GCs also died. Where is the ethnic cleansing? TCs went into enclaves for many reasons, partly to prepare for partition. Turkey did not invade until 1974, therefore, GCs had ten years to substantially reduce the TC population, which was not all that big in any event. Surely it would not have been that difficult for four-fifths of the population to eradicate the other one-fifth over a period of more than 10 years if there was a concerted, vigorous ethnic cleansing policy. After all, the Turkish army managed removing 200,000 in next to no time. But did the TC population dramatically reduce by mass killings?

What I do accept is that there was a number of nationalists on each side that did fight during this period and others may have got dragged in. However, to then magnify this and state that Greek Cypriots generally tried to ethnically cleanse TCs is ridiculous.

So you take all the history and the NEWS REPORTS of the time and refute everything. Every quote and comment by world leaders about the killings, every eye witness report every con fession and say it did not happen. Tell me what does it take to convince you?