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Nationality vs. Ethnicity

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby shahmaran » Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:46 pm

Pyrpolizer wrote:
Shah wrote: what i have always believed is that, if we do unify then us as the minority, are going to loose our identity and get assimiliated and blended into a big Greek EU society


Your beleif will be proven right or wrong ONLY in practice. In other words only if and when re-unification occurs. There are still TC people living in mixed villages like Pyla, there has been absolutely no loss of their identity for 6 centuries already. In a Federal system the chances for such a loss of identity are zero.

On the other hand what is your alternative? To wait until the day every Japanese kid speaks about Ortakuyu NC?


Well i dont think try and failure is an option here Pyr and we have a lot more to loose than you, so maybe we should just wait untill TC are healthy enough to negotiate on even grounds with the south, its as simple as that, but ofcourse that would be seen as glorifying our victory, which brings us back to the fundamental cause of the division, so its an endless loop, and we need to snap out of it.

Also I think Pile is the ONLY village that is mixed and it is not a good example for this situation since it is a very isolated case/village and they seem pretty even there, i know because my uncle lives there and like i said i used to visit it often.

I dont understand your "Japanese kid" analogy how ever i am almost certain its irrelevant...:)
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Postby Viewpoint » Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:47 pm

Birkibrisli
Arguments/fights/discussions like these,where people stop arguing the point and attack and label the person,always take a heavy emotional toll on me.
Some might like it hard to believe but I truly hate crossing swords with my fellow TCs all the time. I have a long lost cousin who lives in London.We were like brothers when we were growing up in Cyprus.We were first cousins on both sides,you know,children of a brother and sister who married another sister and brother,in the great Cypriot tradition...
I have not heard from him since 1981,and for all I know Mrfromng could be him!I have hundreds of cousins I don't even know (my mother had 9 siblings,my father 5,all with plenty of children,and children's children,and in some cases children's children's children)some of whom still live in Cyprus. Viewpoint and Shahmaran could easily be two of those cousins. Most of my cousins from my father's side live in London,and Zan could be one of them for all I know...
The point is why would I want to put the future of my own family in danger by insisting on reunification?
I have gone blue in the face arguing this point:The times have changed and most GCs have moved on from the dream of Enosis. They now know it was a folly which cost them and Cyprus dearly.There are no more EOKA fighters running around killing those who disagreed with their aims.There are no more TMT fighters doing the same on the other side.


This is all true so you should be far more sensitive and understanding towards our concerns and arguments, you are telling us to assimilate into GCs rather than Turks.

We are not afraid of Enosis as this has indirectly been achieved through the EU but the new fear and the GC stance just re-enforces everyday is osmosis, assimilation, the "RoC" no moves towards restart or negotiations, what do you have to say about these and what do you suggest we do to counter our concerns what safety guards do you want for your brother who eat drink and breath Cyprus everyday?

RoC is a prosperous European country run democratically(more or less).


You to have you doubts but good luck to the GC community they have worked hard and deserve what they get in return but having international recognition is a greatly contributing factor, which they continue to deny us unless we succumb to their demands.

On the other hand,given the certainty that the TRNC will never be recognised by the UN as a legitimate state


This you cannot know another referendum rejection by the south would seal recognition and imo that's why Tassos will not return to the table and will delay as long as possible.

and the certain loss of TC national identity if the status quo remains for another couple of decades,I am finding it extremely difficult to understand the position of those advocating partition.


This again you cannot know for sure and I suggest you read back all our posts to understand why we are advocating partition as the only viable solution because nothing else is on the table and the only solution put to the people was rejected by the GCs. Both sides do not have the ability to come together and make it work (we cant even agree a crossing) the desire or the drive is not there and even you must be able to see this.

The only reason can be the persistence of a pathological fear and anxiety caused by the traumas of the 50s and 60s...In other words persistence of a collective Post Traumatic Stress Disorder which has turned those TCs still living in the TRNC into paranoid psychological weaklings unable to imagine standing on their own two feet on a level playing field...A sad and tragic situation.


This is totally wrong we have survived under the direst of situations facing discrimination and even annihilation, we have moved forward and built a functioning state which you wish to dissolve without even a second thought. Where is the level playing field, allow us the same advantages as the south and them you will see progress in the north, that is what the GCs are afraid of and will do everything within their power to stop.

One that I could not bear to watch from either side of the divide for longer than one week at a time...Hence I am condemned to live and die in exile,but hey,there must be worse things in life than that prospect,though I am finding it difficult to think of one at the moment...


You could always come live with your GC brothers, you are closer to their mentality than you are ours so you don't have to visit the TRNC you hate so much.
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Postby BirKibrisli » Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:50 pm

shahmaran wrote:BirKibrisli i have never argued the point that i want to stay divided in fear of being attacked by GCs, ofcourse the times have changed and its not really possible (except minor attacks on vehicles etc), what i have always believed is that, if we do unify then us as the minority, are going to loose our identity and get assimiliated and blended into a big Greek EU society, you had to pretty much change your nationality once which is bad enough, but dont force us to go back to it with you, because we are from TRNC, and when i say US i mean the people like me who havent lived long enough to know anything more than the TRNC. And im pretty sure there ar emany who are old enough and still claim to be from TRNC. We could do so much better if we can just be given a chance which we have not at all for MANY years, and that is still not an excuse to "hug the snake in the sea" as they say in turkish!


I never liked that saying (Denize dushen yilana sarilir!),Sahmaran,but I know it well...But what makes you sure that we are bound to be assimilated into a big Greek EU society and lose our identity?Don't you think we, like all Cypriots, are stubborn as a donkey,to put up a good fight? In a truly democratic state with proportional representation in Parliament 20% is not a negligible minority.If we voted as a single block that would make the TC party the second largest in Cyprus probably. But that of course would not happen. What is likely to happen is this: people will vote along political lines (right,left,green,social democrat whatever) and in time people's ethnicity and religion will not matter at all.

Why do you think things will necessarily be like they were in the 50s and 60s?Do you think we have learned nothing from the past 50 years? I can tell you one thing which will not be the same.The presence of tens of thousands of expatriot Cypriots (both TCs and GCs) who will return after a just and lasting setlement to help build the new Cypriot society. These people who have lived longer in multicultural and multiracial democratic Western societies than they lived in Cyprus,will be the guarantors that everybody's human rights will be respected.
I am 55 years old,still young enough to have another life,perhaps as a writer and journalist ,in a reunited Cyprus. How do I know that a poor misguided sod of 17 will not shoot me like Hrant Dink in Turkey?Well,I don't.And it could easily happen.Will I still go ahead and take the risk for the sake of my country? Yes,I would. Because my spirit is dying a little bit every day in this country where materialism, mediocrity, drinking,sport , racism and bigotry are the national pastimes,nomatter what the glossy appearances. I see no better way to go than chasing a dream for the good of my motherland...
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Postby shahmaran » Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:50 pm

DT wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
DT wrote:i see we are all reaching new levels of maturity here.

VP, when you bring new settlers into Cyprus it will always concern me. You're housing them in our homes, so you're damn right its my business.


There are no more homes and no more land is being distributed. Whether we get on with these settlers or not is not your business. Whether they will swoolow us whole and turn us into Turks is also not your business.


I'm sorry VP but I find your argument wholly insulting. My home town is Morphou, it will always be that. My kids say they are from Morphou even though they never saw it, and I'll make damn sure their kids will as well. What happens in my country is my business. Just because a gun stops me from going home doesn't mean I've relinquished my right to it.


DT you are ofcourse more then free to bring your children up, designed to perpetuate even more hate throughout the future generations, and im sure you can see plenty of logic in that... :roll:
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Postby Viewpoint » Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:50 pm

DT wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
DT wrote:i see we are all reaching new levels of maturity here.

VP, when you bring new settlers into Cyprus it will always concern me. You're housing them in our homes, so you're damn right its my business.


There are no more homes and no more land is being distributed. Whether we get on with these settlers or not is not your business. Whether they will swoolow us whole and turn us into Turks is also not your business.


I'm sorry VP but I find your argument wholly insulting. My home town is Morphou, it will always be that. My kids say they are from Morphou even though they never saw it, and I'll make damn sure their kids will as well. What happens in my country is my business. Just because a gun stops me from going home doesn't mean I've relinquished my right to it.


Are you a fanatic?, your children were born in the south, they are not from the north you are making them say so is a form of brainwashing, you are even planning to make your grandchildren say this, the GC mind unbelievable.
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Postby eracles » Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:55 pm

How is this unbelievable. I live in England but still consider myself 'from Cyprus', that's where my roots are. I'm sure TCs do the same?
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Postby Viewpoint » Thu Jan 25, 2007 4:00 pm

eracles wrote:How is this unbelievable. I live in England but still consider myself 'from Cyprus', that's where my roots are. I'm sure TCs do the same?


He brainwashes his offspring to say they are from Guzelyurt although they were born in Limasol? that's what I find unbelievable. You come from a country ethnic background everyone does that, this is like saying you were born in London but they tell you to say you are from Birmingham come on this is not normal. DT is from Guzelyurt not his children, in that case what if his wife is from Kyrenia?
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Postby DT. » Thu Jan 25, 2007 4:00 pm

Viewpoint wrote:
DT wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
DT wrote:i see we are all reaching new levels of maturity here.

VP, when you bring new settlers into Cyprus it will always concern me. You're housing them in our homes, so you're damn right its my business.


There are no more homes and no more land is being distributed. Whether we get on with these settlers or not is not your business. Whether they will swoolow us whole and turn us into Turks is also not your business.


I'm sorry VP but I find your argument wholly insulting. My home town is Morphou, it will always be that. My kids say they are from Morphou even though they never saw it, and I'll make damn sure their kids will as well. What happens in my country is my business. Just because a gun stops me from going home doesn't mean I've relinquished my right to it.


Are you a fanatic?, your children were born in the south, they are not from the north you are making them say so is a form of brainwashing, you are even planning to make your grandchildren say this, the GC mind unbelievable.


My children were born in the UK. DOes that make them ENglish? They are Cypriot and their father comes from Morphou and their mother from Famagusta. Where are they from?
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Postby DT. » Thu Jan 25, 2007 4:01 pm

DT wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
DT wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
DT wrote:i see we are all reaching new levels of maturity here.

VP, when you bring new settlers into Cyprus it will always concern me. You're housing them in our homes, so you're damn right its my business.


There are no more homes and no more land is being distributed. Whether we get on with these settlers or not is not your business. Whether they will swoolow us whole and turn us into Turks is also not your business.


I'm sorry VP but I find your argument wholly insulting. My home town is Morphou, it will always be that. My kids say they are from Morphou even though they never saw it, and I'll make damn sure their kids will as well. What happens in my country is my business. Just because a gun stops me from going home doesn't mean I've relinquished my right to it.


Are you a fanatic?, your children were born in the south, they are not from the north you are making them say so is a form of brainwashing, you are even planning to make your grandchildren say this, the GC mind unbelievable.


My children were born in the UK. DOes that make them ENglish? They are Cypriot and their father comes from Morphou and their mother from Famagusta. Where are they from?


Just realised that VP called me a fanatic...who?VP!!!!! :roll:
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Postby Viewpoint » Thu Jan 25, 2007 4:02 pm

DT wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
DT wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:
DT wrote:i see we are all reaching new levels of maturity here.

VP, when you bring new settlers into Cyprus it will always concern me. You're housing them in our homes, so you're damn right its my business.


There are no more homes and no more land is being distributed. Whether we get on with these settlers or not is not your business. Whether they will swoolow us whole and turn us into Turks is also not your business.


I'm sorry VP but I find your argument wholly insulting. My home town is Morphou, it will always be that. My kids say they are from Morphou even though they never saw it, and I'll make damn sure their kids will as well. What happens in my country is my business. Just because a gun stops me from going home doesn't mean I've relinquished my right to it.


Are you a fanatic?, your children were born in the south, they are not from the north you are making them say so is a form of brainwashing, you are even planning to make your grandchildren say this, the GC mind unbelievable.


My children were born in the UK. DOes that make them ENglish? They are Cypriot and their father comes from Morphou and their mother from Famagusta. Where are they from?


makes your children British, from the UK with ethnic origins Greek Cypriot due to parents from the "RoC", are they registered in the south?
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