Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kikapu]

if I have made you laugh that in itself is something as laughter is a medicine to cure many ailments

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Try it sometimes, it really works.

VP, I don't want the TC's to be treated as second class citizens in their own country, or even in Turkey, but it's going to happen to some TC's by the GC's and also to some GC's by the TC's, , where . The important thing, is not to have it institutionalised, you know, be a policy of the government, to allow such wrong doings.

If the GC's have the same view as me, as you claim, than that would be a good thing. I want to have a country where all citizens are equal and have a say so in their future, and allowed to bring up their families in a safe and secure environment, to share the wealth and defend the island against outside forces. Be an independent, free, and productive country, where the beacon of light from our shores will illuminate the whole of the Mediterranean, to show all the visitors what the whole island stands for, as one people, with different languages, and English as the common language between them all.

Isn't this better than a Partition, with a barbed wire dividing the island and it's citizens. Did we not already have this with the Berlin Wall and East Germany. When West Germany was prospering, the East Germans were looking across the barbed wire with envy.

I know we are no where near that stage for the TC's, just wanted to make the point.

What we have to decide is can we have all the things you and we long for together or divided, we obviously differ on this issue. We have tasted the togetherness which nearly got us annihilated in a 11 year period and have also been fortunate enough to taste the freedom of going it alone without having to look over your back just in case the knife was going to to be implanted at any moment in time. My choice as you have already worked out is the second alternative as I do not see or am i convinced that unification will allow TCs the things you want for us above. The majority rule does not rid us of our prejudices it will only fuel it and ensure my children will be discriminated against for being a TC. Can you imagine the scenario where your child goes for a job and the panel are all Gcs who harbour prejudices against TCs but of course do not exhibit this openly at all, they choose a GC for the post although that candidate was less qualified than your own child. You go to get permission for to build a house but the deciding body are composed of GCs and they refuse you permission for some stupid reason you do not understand. These are problems we will face in our own country, not a hot country where this is also evident but I do not want this for my children that is why ı will always fight to ensure they are in no discriminated against in anyway in their own country even if this means working hard for recognition as you have the right to promote unification and put my future at risk I also have the right to promote recognition to secure a future where my children and my community can say this is my country and I am at home with being demoted into just another minority.

Would you feel the same way, if we had a Federation System, rather than a Republic.? Because I'm talking about a Federation Government. The Republic Government train has left the station, long time ago.

You would after all, have a TC majority, within your own "State", so you don't have to worry about being a minority or be discriminated for jobs by GC's, within your area. You will have just as many jobs as you have now, within the "TRNC", as you would have in your own "State", within a Federal System. I do not for one minute think it will all go smoothly over night, but neither will Partition.

[Viewpoint]

When you think logically the 2 states are fuctioning right now, its only that we have an economic imbalance due to the unfair isolaiton of the north state and the benefits of recognition in the south. The other organ we are missing in a BBF is the Federal level which would mean we would have to work together for the benefit of the country as a whole. This was reflected very much in the Annan plan which as you know has been demonised and rejected by the GCs.

[Kikapu]

When you think logically the 2 federated states are fuctioning right now, its only that we have an economic imbalance due to the unfair isolaiton of the north state and the benefits of recognition in the south. The other organ we are missing in a BBF is the Federal level which would mean we would have to work together for the benefit of the country as a whole. This was reflected very much in the Annan plan which as you know has been demonised and rejected by the GCs.

VP, I can assure you, not all 50 States in the USA, are equal economically. If you compare California with more than half of the 50 States, we come way over the top, in every sector. Each State lives within their means, with support from the Federal Government, based on each States population. It is up to each State to spend the money, where it is most needed, with the Federal Government, paying large portion of it.
It would be in the interest of the "Federal Government of Cyprus", to make sure, that the whole island reaches same level economically, to reduce the drain on Federal Funds.

[Viewpoint]

When you think logically the 2 federated states are fuctioning right now, its only that we have an economic imbalance due to the unfair isolaiton of the north state and the benefits of recognition in the south. The other organ we are missing in a BBF is the Federal level which would mean we would have to work together for the benefit of the country as a whole. This was reflected very much in the Annan plan which as you know has been demonised and rejected by the GCs.

VP, I can assure you, not all 50 States in the USA, are equal economically. If you compare California with more than half of the 50 States, we come way over the top, in every sector. Each State lives within their means, with support from the Federal Government, based on each States population. It is up to each State to spend the money, where it is most needed, with the Federal Government, paying large portion of it.
It would be in the interest of the "Federal Government of Cyprus", to make sure, that the whole island reaches same level economically, to reduce the drain on Federal Funds.

In order to do this you would have to allow all states the freedom to trade freely, to deveop to its full potential which may not be equal bıt still to a good level and not isolate one state over the other. This is the step we are trying to in effect obtain via the EU as we chat but of course the GCs will block this all the way. What do you say about that? They want to keep us wanting a solution but do not realize that these antics will backfire in the long run as it fuels contempt and hatred towards themselves.

[Kikapu]

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In order to do this you would have to allow all states the freedom to trade freely, to deveop to its full potential which may not be equal bıt still to a good level and not isolate one state over the other. This is the step we are trying to in effect obtain via the EU as we chat but of course the GCs will block this all the way. What do you say about that? .

Well, the reason why you're prevented from doing the above, it's because we are in a system of a "Republic Government" and not a "Federal Government" System. If it was a Federal System, then of course you will be able to trade, with whom ever you wanted, so why not try to establish a Federal System, than a Partition.

Did you know, if California was a country, it would have the world's 7th largest economy. That's because, we are in a Federation System , in the USA.

[Viewpoint]

[

In order to do this you would have to allow all states the freedom to trade freely, to deveop to its full potential which may not be equal bıt still to a good level and not isolate one state over the other. This is the step we are trying to in effect obtain via the EU as we chat but of course the GCs will block this all the way. What do you say about that? .

Well, the reason why you're prevented from doing the above, it's because we are in a system of a "Republic Government" and not a "Federal Government" System. If it was a Federal System, then of course you will be able to trade, with whom ever you wanted, so why not try to establish a Federal System, than a Partition.

Did you know, if California was a country, it would have the world's 7th largest economy. That's because, we are in a Federation System , in the USA.

I did know that actually but thanks for reminding me. You have totally ignored the GC viewpoint they rejected a federal solution via the Annan plan and although they now play lip service to it they have not come anywhere near wanting renegotiate as they know if this round of talks resulted in a plan they did not want there would be no way back only partition. That's why I still feel the GCs are not sincere and that we have exhausted the games with negotiations for unification all we should be talking about is the % for the split is it to be 20 or 27%? with an enforcement clause if not solution id found in the next 5 years. That's ample time to find a solution.

[BirKibrisli]

I go away for a couple of days,and come back to find out it has been open season on Kikapu...

Some of us have lived through the 50s and 60s in Cyprus,and were exiled before 1974,and lived for over or nearly 40 years abroad often intimately with Turks from Turkey,and came to the conclusion that we were Cypriots above all and very different to our Turkish cousins.

Others who were born in the North after 1974,lived under military rule with handouts from Turkey,and forced to share their open prison with the misfortunate,economic migrants from Turkey,came to the conclusion that they were exactly like their poor unfortunate Turkish cousins.

Which of us would you say were "diluted" or "deluded" or "delusional"???

Don't worry about being called a "traitor"' Kikapu. Carry it like a badge of courage and honour. You will be in good company.

[shahmaran]

I am one of the citizens of this "open prison" and i do not see any similarities between myself and the "misfortunate economic migrants" from Turkey who are my neighbours, since most of them represent a more traditional side of Turkey, and im pretty sure they are the kind of people you were intimate with in whatever country you are in, since its thoose same type of people are usually the ones to migrate because of economic reasons. We dont see it that different after all, however...

Turkey is a big country and there are many kind of people there....having lived in TRNC and Turkey my whole life i can happily say that the only common thing i have with GCs, is this little island that i have to share with them...but a lot more with some of the people in Turkey.

[Viewpoint]

I go away for a couple of days,and come back to find out it has been open season on Kikapu...

Some of us have lived through the 50s and 60s in Cyprus,and were exiled before 1974,and lived for over or nearly 40 years abroad often intimately with Turks from Turkey,and came to the conclusion that we were Cypriots above all and very different to our Turkish cousins.

Others who were born in the North after 1974,lived under military rule with handouts from Turkey,and forced to share their open prison with the misfortunate,economic migrants from Turkey,came to the conclusion that they were exactly like their poor unfortunate Turkish cousins.

Which of us would you say were "diluted" or "deluded" or "delusional"???

Don't worry about being called a "traitor"' Kikapu. Carry it like a badge of courage and honour. You will be in good company.

What you desperately need is an injection of reality in your viewpoint, come live on the island for a few years and then you will realize how far off the mark you are. Your mind has become diluted over the years and can only see what it wants to see. You really need to listen to the young generation TC and GC they do not agree with you one bit.

[pitsilos]

vp you are just a tool and a useless one too

what about all the TCs that live in the south? is their reality the same as yours?