Cyprus-Forum.com

[zan]

Thank you for an honest response.

Yes there were people emigrating from the north because of the army but if that was their only reason I don’t believe they would have left. The main reason was the threat of war as ever on our little island. This reason for leaving is just a bit of propaganda that is usual in these cases. Even though Turkey was on the shores and promised protection what does the normal every day person know about what is going on at government levels. If this was not the case then why would so many TCs and others be moving back there now. The army is still there and until recently our government has done nothing to show that it is part of the process and the RoC has done its best to make it look that way by constantly refusing to talk to the TRNC. I understand the tactics of why the RoC would want to do that and I suppose that I am angrier with my own government for not doing more to counteract it.


With respect to the TCs being worse off because of the army then I can only say to you that all the good they did had to come with some bad but as I said that is and must be changing and the repatriation of people is witness to that.

On that basis the way the TCs were thinking was that if an agreement was reached then the army would go and things would get better faster. The Annan plan gave them hope in that direction but they thought that with the plan and the EU they would also be allowed back into a positive position in government too. The rejection of the Annan plan was and is a massive blow for the TCs and as you see all over the forum the idea that we as TCs can ever have a real and powerful position in government has vanished.


I have always argued against the idea of an occupation because it is we the TCs that want Turkey there. I am certain that if we were able to securely defend ourselves and were able to convince Turkey that their interests in Cyprus were safe in our hands then they would leave tomorrow. It is no good saying that Turkey has no interests in Cyprus because they have and have had for hundreds of years and they have a greater right than the UK and US wanting bases.


I too live in a multicultural country and love it for that but the differences is massive when you compare it to Cyprus. These countries are host countries and have many more ethnic peoples than Cyprus. In a way we have that in a smaller way in Cyprus because we are arguing as two people and are not bringing in all the other nationalities. Even these ethnic groups are siding with who ever they are living with and forming a common bond with each side. I have to say to you that I have seen the unease within these communities in the UK as well. I have posted that I work mainly on council estates where most of these minorities live and working in their houses gives me an insight that I believe many do not get. Sometimes it is like I am not there and they talk pretty openly amongst themselves as families and the prejudices I see is quite sickening. The worst of course coming from the indigenous British. This is the part that concerns me most because there is a great danger in forcibly mixing people together. Again the ones on the council estates in the UK are not forced and are not necessarily at war with one another or have a history of it. That is why I think we must wait and the north must regain the momentum it lost and be allowed to develop as a country before any reunification can have a chance of working.


I too have romantic dreams of a reunified, happy and prosperous island but that to me is not possible for the reasons above.


As far as negotiations go, I too believe they should never stop but they can only work if there is a common goal. If the ideas are diametrically opposed as they are today then we get what we have and probably what we deserve. I cannot see them changing until some reality is injected into all of this and that reality is a bitter pill to swallow because it means a partition of some sort. Those are my beliefs based on all that I have written so far.

[andri_cy]

humanist

So I did, the response was overwhelming, the lovely person I spoke to, was certain that less TSCyp's would have immigrated from Cyprus if it were not for the Turkish Army and its overwhelming presence.

Could you kindly ask those lovely people if they would have been alive today if that army presence was not there?

or

What the current life standard of their relatives living here in the TRNC are?

and why they always long to come live here in the TRNC?

I would very much like to return back to Cyprus and feel that I belong somewhere,

You can tomorrow no one is stopping you its called the "RoC" a GC state run by GCs for GCs like you.

VP as always you take something someone says and twist it so you can answer whatever nonsense you want. Humanist said he would lo9ve to come back and feel like he belong, however at the same time I do not wish to live in a country where its people are separated.

Also, you might have had fear for your life in your own mind, but you have NO solid proof that every TC in Cyprus would have died were it not for the invasion. Just as like we have NO proof that you wouldnt have. Right now the best thing either side can do is speculate and you know what they say about assuming.
As far as people longing to come back to the "TRNC", maybe all those people want is to just come back to Cyprus. Have you ever thought of that?
Regarding the GC state run by GCs I wonder why you say it in such a way that makes GC sound like a curse word? Of course I shouldn't wonder as you have displayed many a times how much you hate anything that might have the word Greek in it even if it is a Greek Speaking Cypriot.
All I see here from several people on both sides is little children taking their toys and going to their room because they don't want to share so they would rather not play. You are all immature, the whole lot no matter your age. All you say is the same things over and over, recycling, getting boring and leading nowhere. And when someone-from either side, mind you- posts something positive or something that seems to be a step forward you all find one thing you can twist and reply to that with the same old garbage that you were posting a year ago. And just so no one starts whining that I am unfair I mean all of the stuck stubborn little children on both sides...

[Pyrpolizer]

Could you kindly ask those lovely people if they would have been alive today if that army presence was not there?

Sampson said he would exterminate the TCs but Sampson fell within 6 days and Klerides took over. Seeing how much of a Turk lover he proved to be (fyi he was the one who saved Denktash’s life when he was arrested smaggling whole shiploads of weapons in the 60s) I would say that Klerides would solve the Cyprob within one year after 1974. After Klerides took over Turkey invaded. For one whole month not even one TC was hurt despite the thousands of GCs getting killed in Kyrenia and hundreds of women raped.

What the current life standard of their relatives living here in the TRNC are?

From TC people I associate with and speak directly, and I mean people of the highest possible status this is their life standard:
I military truck parks just outside their bussiness, it closes all the roads, the engine runs and suffocates everybody, it blocks the entrance stays there for two hours and nobody can say anything.

They go home in the evening there is someone in the house robbering. As soon as he sees the TC owner the robberer pulls up his shirt and he reveals a military uniform, a leather pocket with a military gun inside. He does not speak up a single word and he leaves. Everything has been spoken already…

My TC friends says he will not even bother reporting the robberer to the police. The robberer he says is one of those….

I am sick and tired of people like you in this forum. It is not possible for me who crosses to meet TC friends once in a while to know these things and you to pretend you don’t know them and SAY NOT A SINGLE WORD IN THIS FORUM.

[Pyrpolizer]

Humanist it is not enough to tell you that they suffer from the Turkish army.
Next time ask for details man. Ask those TCs "what do you mean exactly how is the Turkish army oppressing you"? I am sure you will receive more interesting answers from what I got.

Unfortunately my case is that most of the times we meet in public places and TC people are not so open to say details freely...

[humanist]

VP I believe you are a separatist and I choose not to converse with you because all i get from your mouth is venom. You know as well as I do that a unified Cyprus will have a fair representation . Mate, you are caught up in power and control games and you can not see the light of day. Just leave me alone to have a conversation with a gentleman like Zan.

Andri ..... thank you very much you summed it up very well. I also too believe that most TSC's are wanting to return to Cyprus not necessarily the north. To that end I would ask the RoC to assist those people financially to re-settle in their properties in the south if that is what they choose. I also believe that it is time for the RoC to fill those parliamentary positions from the 1960 constitution with TSC's MP's. That would pave the way for a solution not this crap about we don't want to acknowledge Talat's administration, that will get us nowhere.

To ensure safety of Turkish Speaking Cypriots the judicial system ought to also change for tougher penalties for those discriminating and violating the safety of TSCyp's. However if there is a racist regime in Cyprus' governmental sphere then that would be impossible.

[andri_cy]

Sounds great to me Andreas, wish someone would take the steps and make it happen.

[Viewpoint]

andri_cy

VP as always you take something someone says and twist it so you can answer whatever nonsense you want. Humanist said he would lo9ve to come back and feel like he belong, however at the same time I do not wish to live in a country where its people are separated.

He can also belong to his beloved "RoC" in the south and if he loves his beloved TC brothers like he claims or wants to hear the azan (call to prayer) he can visit and stay in the TRNC whenever he wishes, hes more than welcome. Whats wrong with this?

Also, you might have had fear for your life in your own mind, but you have NO solid proof that every TC in Cyprus would have died were it not for the invasion. Just as like we have NO proof that you wouldn't have. Right now the best thing either side can do is speculate and you know what they say about assuming.

Im glad the Turkish Army did not leave it to chance as the risk to our existence was at stake a very high price to gamble with don't you think? Even the sampson declaration of we can annihilate the TCs in 20 minutes send shivers down our spines even today.

As far as people longing to come back to the "TRNC", maybe all those people want is to just come back to Cyprus. Have you ever thought of that?

I don't know all these people but the ones I do know are investing in the TRNC to prepare the way for their retirement or work places to have something to do when they finally make the break from their host countries. The TRNC is home for the younger TCs they do not know anything about the "RoC" which to them is foreign like the people in them who speak another language and are constantly trying to enforce embargoes on the people.

Regarding the GC state run by GCs I wonder why you say it in such a way that makes GC sound like a curse word? Of course I shouldn't wonder as you have displayed many a times how much you hate anything that might have the word Greek in it even if it is a Greek Speaking Cypriot.

This is just to being home what we would have to face in a united Cyprus where the majority would rule which is the GC ultimate goal, why does it make you so uncomfortable its something your leaders promote and many GCs especially Piratis feel is the only solution possible other than waiting for the swing in power where GCs can enforce their demands.

All you say is the same things over and over, recycling, getting boring and leading nowhere. And when someone-from either side, mind you- posts something positive or something that seems to be a step forward you all find one thing you can twist and reply to that with the same old garbage that you were posting a year ago. And just so no one starts whining that I am unfair I mean all of the stuck stubborn little children on both sides...

Its what you would call being consistent and not seeing any other viable alternatives if you do not like the questions I have asked then you should really consider why? and question your own beliefs as to why people like me are so adamantly against putting their future in the hands of GCs?

[Viewpoint]

Pyrpolizer

From TC people I associate with and speak directly, and I mean people of the highest possible status this is their life standard:
I military truck parks just outside their bussiness, it closes all the roads, the engine runs and suffocates everybody, it blocks the entrance stays there for two hours and nobody can say anything.

Bullshit, whats this got to do with anything, these people are arrogant rich people who don't even cook their own meals and find fault in everything. They should be grateful the army are here to deter them losing their businesses all together as there was a time not so long ago they would not have been permitted to trade by their GC brothers, ho how soon these people forget. Two hours of inconvenience is better than a life time or discrimination and hardship.

They go home in the evening there is someone in the house robbering. As soon as he sees the TC owner the robberer pulls up his shirt and he reveals a military uniform, a leather pocket with a military gun inside. He does not speak up a single word and he leaves. Everything has been spoken already…

My TC friends says he will not even bother reporting the robberer to the police. The robberer he says is one of those….

Even more bullshit, we have the lowest crime rate in the world and the number of robberies are minimal to near enough non-existent, look at the violence and crime in the south before criticizing anyone else else.

I am sick and tired of people like you in this forum. It is not possible for me who crosses to meet TC friends once in a while to know these things and you to pretend you don’t know them and SAY NOT A SINGLE WORD IN THIS FORUM.

Prove it, I saw a GC pig fly last night, please provide proof not hot air.

[Viewpoint]

VP I believe you are a separatist and I choose not to converse with you because all i get from your mouth is venom. You know as well as I do that a unified Cyprus will have a fair representation . Mate, you are caught up in power and control games and you can not see the light of day. Just leave me alone to have a conversation with a gentleman like Zan.

Andri ..... thank you very much you summed it up very well. I also too believe that most TSC's are wanting to return to Cyprus not necessarily the north. To that end I would ask the RoC to assist those people financially to re-settle in their properties in the south if that is what they choose. I also believe that it is time for the RoC to fill those parliamentary positions from the 1960 constitution with TSC's MP's. That would pave the way for a solution not this crap about we don't want to acknowledge Talat's administration, that will get us nowhere.

To ensure safety of Turkish Speaking Cypriots the judicial system ought to also change for tougher penalties for those discriminating and violating the safety of TSCyp's. However if there is a racist regime in Cyprus' governmental sphere then that would be impossible.

All you have to do is not respond to my posts, but burying your head in the sand does not make issues go away they only get worse and will return on a bigger scale.

[humanist]

Why do you find it so difficult to accept that I do have an interest in the Turkish Speaking Cypriot people, culture, religion and co-existence VP?

Well if that is my crime that I see you and consider you as a fellow Cypriot then let that be my crime, my friend, let that be my crime.