Cyprus-Forum.com

[zan]

cypezokyli, what negotiating power this whole thing is laughable mate, Cyprus ought not to have negotiating at all. The fact remains that Turkey is illegally occupying 1/3 of Cyprus and violating human rights ....... someone out there ought to say enough is enough you either move peacefully or we'll kick your sorry butt, out just like we did with Iraq when it invaded Kwait.

I am surprised by this outburst. What happened to we should always carry on talking". Besides the fact you have made the same mistake that others make in that it is not occupied by Turkey it is the TRNC and the Turkish troops are there at our request. The line that Turkey is an occupying power is wearing thin.

Actually Zan its stronger than ever. It started with just the GC's thinking this way, now its gathering pace within the Tc community as well. Look to your own first.

What my own are doing is something that I said all along they should have done and take control for their own destiny. This was prevented mainly by the RoC by refusing to talk to us as an entity. This will put us in a better position to demand our rights and recognition even if it is by default. Be careful what you ask for as you might just get it. With Turkey out of the talks or more a back seat, as in Greece’s case, who is the RoC going to vilify? The TCs that it tried to bully out of the constitution?

Hope and pray that we're left with the TC's to talk to and Turkey butts out. We would have negotiated an annan plan to benefit TC's and GC's and not accept a last minute 11 point plan that benefits only Turkey regarding pre-emptive rights on the natural resources of cyprus and other similiar issues. We would unite against a common occupation force.

We can then unite against the common occupation army.

Totally with you on that one except for the occupation force. I believe if we had asked (we as in TRNC) Turkey to leave then they would not have had a leg to stand on but the RoC has insisted that they call them an occupation force and so they have had to defend themselves to that point and the Cyprus issue has been sidelined. I understand that the RoC talking to the president of the TRNC would mean a sort of recognition that we exist but what has the alternative got us, absolutely nothing.

[Pyrpolizer]

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Anybody looking for the definition of sweet dreams?

[zan]

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Anybody looking for the definition of sweet dreams?

Falling asleep with a confection in your mouth

[humanist]

Zan I knew you would come back to it...... Hoever i have contacted the Turkish Welfare centre in Melbourne and found that quite a majority of Turkish Speaking Cypriots, felt they were worse off under the Turkish army regime. So I got a bit pissed off at that. At least if they came in with pretence to support you guys then that's what should had happened, Turkish Speaking Cyp's ought to had been better off.

I have never agreed on the issue of the Turkish Occupation of Cyprus.

I strongly believe that the RoC leadership and The leadership of the Turkish Speaking Cypriots need continue with realistic timelines, and I strongly support the Turkish Speaking Cypriot Community to be part of the economic growth of Cyprus. I do not accept partition as an option and I feel very sad at the soical and cutural ramifications of Cyprus through such an action.

[DT.]

cypezokyli, what negotiating power this whole thing is laughable mate, Cyprus ought not to have negotiating at all. The fact remains that Turkey is illegally occupying 1/3 of Cyprus and violating human rights ....... someone out there ought to say enough is enough you either move peacefully or we'll kick your sorry butt, out just like we did with Iraq when it invaded Kwait.

I am surprised by this outburst. What happened to we should always carry on talking". Besides the fact you have made the same mistake that others make in that it is not occupied by Turkey it is the TRNC and the Turkish troops are there at our request. The line that Turkey is an occupying power is wearing thin.

Actually Zan its stronger than ever. It started with just the GC's thinking this way, now its gathering pace within the Tc community as well. Look to your own first.

What my own are doing is something that I said all along they should have done and take control for their own destiny. This was prevented mainly by the RoC by refusing to talk to us as an entity. This will put us in a better position to demand our rights and recognition even if it is by default. Be careful what you ask for as you might just get it. With Turkey out of the talks or more a back seat, as in Greece’s case, who is the RoC going to vilify? The TCs that it tried to bully out of the constitution?

Hope and pray that we're left with the TC's to talk to and Turkey butts out. We would have negotiated an annan plan to benefit TC's and GC's and not accept a last minute 11 point plan that benefits only Turkey regarding pre-emptive rights on the natural resources of cyprus and other similiar issues. We would unite against a common occupation force.

We can then unite against the common occupation army.

Totally with you on that one except for the occupation force. I believe if we had asked (we as in TRNC) Turkey to leave then they would not have had a leg to stand on but the RoC has insisted that they call them an occupation force and so they have had to defend themselves to that point and the Cyprus issue has been sidelined. I understand that the RoC talking to the president of the TRNC would mean a sort of recognition that we exist but what has the alternative got us, absolutely nothing.

I think my views on the annan plan would have been much different to what they are had I known that they were negotiated purely by TC's and GC's. We kept Greece in the dark on the entire thing, think you should have done the same. (regardless what tpap or anyone else says.)

[zan]

cypezokyli, what negotiating power this whole thing is laughable mate, Cyprus ought not to have negotiating at all. The fact remains that Turkey is illegally occupying 1/3 of Cyprus and violating human rights ....... someone out there ought to say enough is enough you either move peacefully or we'll kick your sorry butt, out just like we did with Iraq when it invaded Kwait.

I am surprised by this outburst. What happened to we should always carry on talking". Besides the fact you have made the same mistake that others make in that it is not occupied by Turkey it is the TRNC and the Turkish troops are there at our request. The line that Turkey is an occupying power is wearing thin.

Actually Zan its stronger than ever. It started with just the GC's thinking this way, now its gathering pace within the Tc community as well. Look to your own first.

What my own are doing is something that I said all along they should have done and take control for their own destiny. This was prevented mainly by the RoC by refusing to talk to us as an entity. This will put us in a better position to demand our rights and recognition even if it is by default. Be careful what you ask for as you might just get it. With Turkey out of the talks or more a back seat, as in Greece’s case, who is the RoC going to vilify? The TCs that it tried to bully out of the constitution?

Hope and pray that we're left with the TC's to talk to and Turkey butts out. We would have negotiated an annan plan to benefit TC's and GC's and not accept a last minute 11 point plan that benefits only Turkey regarding pre-emptive rights on the natural resources of cyprus and other similiar issues. We would unite against a common occupation force.

We can then unite against the common occupation army.

Totally with you on that one except for the occupation force. I believe if we had asked (we as in TRNC) Turkey to leave then they would not have had a leg to stand on but the RoC has insisted that they call them an occupation force and so they have had to defend themselves to that point and the Cyprus issue has been sidelined. I understand that the RoC talking to the president of the TRNC would mean a sort of recognition that we exist but what has the alternative got us, absolutely nothing.

I think my views on the annan plan would have been much different to what they are had I known that they were negotiated purely by TC's and GC's. We kept Greece in the dark on the entire thing, think you should have done the same. (regardless what tpap or anyone else says.)

You cannot seriously believe that Greece kept out of this can you????

[raymanuva]

Seen the issue of Turkish Jealousy last night on the news, couldnt keep myself from hysterical laughs.

[zan]

Zan I knew you would come back to it...... Hoever i have contacted the Turkish Welfare centre in Melbourne and found that quite a majority of Turkish Speaking Cypriots, felt they were worse off under the Turkish army regime. So I got a bit pissed off at that. At least if they came in with pretence to support you guys then that's what should had happened, Turkish Speaking Cyp's ought to had been better off.

I have never agreed on the issue of the Turkish Occupation of Cyprus.

I strongly believe that the RoC leadership and The leadership of the Turkish Speaking Cypriots need continue with realistic timelines, and I strongly support the Turkish Speaking Cypriot Community to be part of the economic growth of Cyprus. I do not accept partition as an option and I feel very sad at the soical and cutural ramifications of Cyprus through such an action.

Of course the TCs thought that, that is why they voted yes to the Annan Plan, I am surprised that you have found that out at such a late stage.

There is no denying that the TCs have a problem with the army from Turkey but as a friend of ours (Cyp) has said what is happening now to make them think differently. The major thing is the RoC and how it treats its supposed citizens and the other is the army that has been slacking off a lot. My eldest sister was very critical of the army when she moved back there but now all that has changed and she now sees them as a protective force. That is their rightful place in our community.

[humanist]

Zan, thank you for your response. To put it in perspactive for you i feel I need to say that, I hear things on TV and read things online in relation to Cyprus. I believe some and not believe some. Since I got onto the C-Forum I have heard lots of voices but probably not enough as we are not the majority of Cypriots.

So I thought, why not contact Melbourne's Community as I knew that there are more Turkish Speaking Cypriots there than anywhere else in Australia to speak to someone and get an idea of their perceptions and views. So I did, the response was overwhelming, the lovely person I spoke to, was certain that less TSCyp's would have immigrated from Cyprus if it were not for the Turkish Army and its overwhelming presence.

I respect what you are saying about protection, but I can also appreciate the fact that some TSCyp's have been worse off since the occupation forces came into it and stayed. I also believe that sometimes we tend to see where we are at in a process and forget that there's others there too whose experience are different.

I am not sure what your occupation is and what your financial situation is that gives you the financial and social security knowing that the Turks (army) are there to protect you, however some of our other compatriots may not view it as such.

Aside of the Cyprus issue I trully do not believe in war and certainly not the occupation of one land by another. My mother lost her 18 year old brother in the war and my parents decided that we (my brother and I) will not go into the army. Hence they immigrated to Australia, I would very much like to return back to Cyprus and feel that I belong somewhere, however at the same time I do not wish to live in a country where its people are separated. I am not sure why am sharing this with you but there obviously is a need as I cannot seem to stop typing.

I am thankful in a way I live in a country where I can express myself on political issues without recrimination. So sometimes I like to challenge decisions and stir up the pot. Hence my comment about kicking Turkey out on its arse as Iraq was with the Kwait thing.

My friend I do not know your age and certainly have not had your experience, but I believe that you stated once that you have not had bad experience from individual GSCyp's, so I am not sure as to your resistance for Unification, but that is your view and it is fine with me. Although I disagree. Perhaps because I live in a multicultural community and enjoy sharing the richness of it, I feel sad that there is a possibility that Cyprus will be divided and loose that richness of culture and language and diversity. As a kid I remember travelling to Lefkosia and hearing the prayers from the Minarets (?) and for me there was a sense of calmness and uniqueness that something so different to what I knew could co-exist and for me that was a beautiful thing.

As far as the negotiations go (in your post to another member), well whilst I can see that the RoC does not want to liaise and communicate with the Talat Administration well that's just garbage. The reality is that the Talat Administration does exist, the Turkish Cypriot Community exists in the north of the country and negotiation needs to happen before we loose another 32 years. The RoC can still negotiate without recognising the "trnc".

I think you also made a coment about the RoC mis treating its citizens refering to TSCyps. I am not clear on what matters you were referring to there, however I would like to say that essentially you (Turkish Speaking Cypriots & Turks) are the enemy and please do not misinterpret me on this, but we are essentially at war.

I am sure that you guys will be treated equally if there was ever a peaceful unification. I believe the fact that the RoC has made it possible for those TSCyp's who wish to gain employment in the south, to access health care and have EU passports and ID cards is an indication that you are considered a part of the Cypriot citizenship, where you rightly belong, if that is what you wish.

[Viewpoint]

humanist

So I did, the response was overwhelming, the lovely person I spoke to, was certain that less TSCyp's would have immigrated from Cyprus if it were not for the Turkish Army and its overwhelming presence.

Could you kindly ask those lovely people if they would have been alive today if that army presence was not there?

or

What the current life standard of their relatives living here in the TRNC are?

and why they always long to come live here in the TRNC?

I would very much like to return back to Cyprus and feel that I belong somewhere,

You can tomorrow no one is stopping you its called the "RoC" a GC state run by GCs for GCs like you.