Cyprus-Forum.com

[zan]

And for your information the phrase you are looking for is not "flightless bird" but "songless bird (otmeyen kush),in Turkish spoken by Turks.
Better get it right before your Turkish brothers call you a British bastard who cannot speak Turkish properly...

I knew exactly what I was saying Bir and your version is not it. You sing sweetly but dribble venom. My meaning was that you will never get off the ground. Fair Dinkum?

Thanks for clearing that up,Zan.
But as far as I am concerned,I am up and flying...
The problem is How and Where do I land..?

At the moment I am guessing that you are wishing that it were on top of my head with great weight.



The post above………..What are those numbers you are quoting 5-10 thousand and then 200,000 and why can’t we have the Diaspora returning to the TRNC and not the GC run RoC.

[BirKibrisli]

And for your information the phrase you are looking for is not "flightless bird" but "songless bird (otmeyen kush),in Turkish spoken by Turks.
Better get it right before your Turkish brothers call you a British bastard who cannot speak Turkish properly...

I knew exactly what I was saying Bir and your version is not it. You sing sweetly but dribble venom. My meaning was that you will never get off the ground. Fair Dinkum?

Thanks for clearing that up,Zan.
But as far as I am concerned,I am up and flying...
The problem is How and Where do I land..?

At the moment I am guessing that you are wishing that it were on top of my head with great weight.



The post above………..What are those numbers you are quoting 5-10 thousand and then 200,000 and why can’t we have the Diaspora returning to the TRNC and not the GC run RoC.

I honestly have no wish to land on your head with any weight...
In case you have not noticed it,I am very fond of you,and you would be on top of my list of people to contact if I ever come to your fair city,which seems to be more likely with each passing day...

I was just guessing how many TCs would return to the RoC if things stayed the same.And how many TCs we could gather in a United Cyprus.

Despite what Viewpoint keeps saying,I think I am being more realistic out of the three of us. The TRNC will never be recognised.My guess is that not too many TCs in the diaspora would return to the TRNC,given all the present disadvantages(shortage of electricity,water,lack of welfare services,the state of health care,the presence of the casinos and drug barrons etc)...So we have no hope of reversing the assimilation process,and the loss of our unique identity as TCs.Not to mention all the moral objections of living in a state built on other people's pain and misery.Personally speaking,I could not live in the TRNC even though my family has lost a lot of land in the South.You know,the two wrongs don't make one right thing...My only hope of ever returning to Cyprus is thus under the reunification solution I keep harping on.I believe there will be enough TCs going back to live in the Republic under a comprehensive settlement to give us a fighting chance of maintaining our TC identity in the short run,and forging a Cypriot identity in the long run without losing the positive aspects of our ethnic origins...But given the present policies of the Tpapa government and the Talat government we have very little chance of ever reuniting our country,that i have to concede...

[zan]

Despite what Viewpoint keeps saying,I think I am being more realistic out of the three of us. The TRNC will never be recognised.My guess is that not too many TCs in the diaspora would return to the TRNC,given all the present disadvantages(shortage of electricity,water,lack of welfare services,the state of health care,the presence of the casinos and drug barrons etc)...So we have no hope of reversing the assimilation process,and the loss of our unique identity as TCs.Not to mention all the moral objections of living in a state built on other people's pain and misery.Personally speaking,I could not live in the TRNC even though my family has lost a lot of land in the South.You know,the two wrongs don't make one right thing...My only hope of ever returning to Cyprus is thus under the reunification solution I keep harping on.I believe there will be enough TCs going back to live in the Republic under a comprehensive settlement to give us a fighting chance of maintaining our TC identity in the short run,and forging a Cypriot identity in the long run without losing the positive aspects of our ethnic origins...But given the present policies of the Tpapa government and the Talat government we have very little chance of ever reuniting our country,that i have to concede...

Sorry Bir but you start off by saying that you consider your self as being more realistic than either VP or me and then you finish by saying you concede that we have little chance of reunification. Is that last part not what VP and I have been saying all along? If we have no chance of reunification then would it not be better to go our separate way and get on with life or are you saying that if we can’t have what you want then we should just suffer. I realise that you used the word “recent”, but who do you think is going to get into government (and this has to be done on both sides at the same time) that is going to change anything. Is Jesus about to come back? SO, the reality is that reunification is an impossibility. Where does your reality fit into that. You are still running on hope a wing and a prayer and it seems that VP and I are looking reality down the throat.



As for living with the unsavoury parts of the society in the TRNC and the Diaspora …..You do realise the countries that the Diaspora are living in don’t you? I realise that you live in the idyllic country of Australia (and I think that might be the problem with your idealist views) but the rest of us have to deal with these things on a daily basis. I of course do not mean the electricity or the water (although the hose pipe ban in and around London has only just been lifted) but drugs and casinos?


I have told you before that two of my sisters have moved back to the TRNC and it seems that every one I know is doing the same. Does this point to a disgruntled Diaspora. All I can say is wait until I get the patent on my electricity producing idea and we will have all the electricity and water we need. Who knows we might even give some to the south, although I cannot promise a constant supply and we might have to turn it off a couple of times a day.


As for the unique identity….That has gone and good luck to it because we want to embrace a new more exciting one within the modern world.

[BirKibrisli]

Despite what Viewpoint keeps saying,I think I am being more realistic out of the three of us. The TRNC will never be recognised.My guess is that not too many TCs in the diaspora would return to the TRNC,given all the present disadvantages(shortage of electricity,water,lack of welfare services,the state of health care,the presence of the casinos and drug barrons etc)...So we have no hope of reversing the assimilation process,and the loss of our unique identity as TCs.Not to mention all the moral objections of living in a state built on other people's pain and misery.Personally speaking,I could not live in the TRNC even though my family has lost a lot of land in the South.You know,the two wrongs don't make one right thing...My only hope of ever returning to Cyprus is thus under the reunification solution I keep harping on.I believe there will be enough TCs going back to live in the Republic under a comprehensive settlement to give us a fighting chance of maintaining our TC identity in the short run,and forging a Cypriot identity in the long run without losing the positive aspects of our ethnic origins...But given the present policies of the Tpapa government and the Talat government we have very little chance of ever reuniting our country,that i have to concede...

Sorry Bir but you start off by saying that you consider your self as being more realistic than either VP or me and then you finish by saying you concede that we have little chance of reunification. Is that last part not what VP and I have been saying all along? If we have no chance of reunification then would it not be better to go our separate way and get on with life or are you saying that if we can’t have what you want then we should just suffer. I realise that you used the word “recent”, but who do you think is going to get into government (and this has to be done on both sides at the same time) that is going to change anything. Is Jesus about to come back? SO, the reality is that reunification is an impossibility. Where does your reality fit into that. You are still running on hope a wing and a prayer and it seems that VP and I are looking reality down the throat.



As for living with the unsavoury parts of the society in the TRNC and the Diaspora …..You do realise the countries that the Diaspora are living in don’t you? I realise that you live in the idyllic country of Australia (and I think that might be the problem with your idealist views) but the rest of us have to deal with these things on a daily basis. I of course do not mean the electricity or the water (although the hose pipe ban in and around London has only just been lifted) but drugs and casinos?


I have told you before that two of my sisters have moved back to the TRNC and it seems that every one I know is doing the same. Does this point to a disgruntled Diaspora. All I can say is wait until I get the patent on my electricity producing idea and we will have all the electricity and water we need. Who knows we might even give some to the south, although I cannot promise a constant supply and we might have to turn it off a couple of times a day.


As for the unique identity….That has gone and good luck to it because we want to embrace a new more exciting one within the modern world.

Perhaps I should've said "I am as realistic as the two of you"...
You see we agree on something.There will not be reunification with the present governments in charge...But I also said the TRNC will never be recognised,ever.If we do what you suggest than we are forever closing the door on peace in Cyprus. The status quo,if it becomes permanent will result in the bitterness and hatred being set in concrete in Cyprus.This is where I claim to be more realistic than you and Viewpoint
You two seem to think that if we maintain the TRNC,with time the GCs will just have to Get Real! and accept it and we will leave peacefully ever after. That won't happen. One of the two communities will disappear from Cyprus. And if you ask me,in a hot conflict the GC community is more likely to lose and disappear. I don't want to live in a Cyprus without its GCs. It will not be Cyprus. It will be another province/state of Turkey.
So I'd rather hang onto the faint hope that one day sanity will prevail,and somehow the circumstances will change enough to allow at least those of us in the diaspora to return as Cypriots.Because those in the TRNC will become Turkish within 25 years...And you will be dead...so why should you care,
I hear you think? I have not figured that out yet. If I do you will be the first to know...

[miltiades]

BIRKIPRISLI WROTE:
""""Because those in the TRNC will become Turkish within 25 years...And you will be dead...so why should you care ""
In the case of these two it does not apply , they have already denied their Cypriot identity and embraced the Turkish mainland .Read what Zan wrote:

""""As for the unique identity….That has gone and good luck to it because we want to embrace a new more exciting one within the modern world """

Referring of course to theT/C identity , but as he says he wants to embrace a NEW !!! and more EXCITING !!! one within the MODERN WORLD !!

Which poem did this words come from , and what may I ask represents the new world , Turkey no doubt the nation that its people by the thousands are forced to become illegal immigrants in Europe and particularly Britain , they do not share your poetic interpretation of NEW and EXCITING MODERN!!! World.
It is laughable that and tragic that Cypriots today are committing identity suicide by adopting that of a nation that the other 27 Muslim countries do not particularly want much to do with it .
You seem surprised that drug barons exist in Northern Cyprus !
You also , based on your past , and just like VP the foreigner , twist words and events to suit your argument , just look at what you concerning Bir's quote :"""""you finish by saying you concede that we have little chance of reunification """
He never , NEVER said that , go back and read his post , remove your blinkers and read again , just to help you these are his words , a million miles away from your interpretation.

"""" ...But given the present policies of the Tpapa government and the Talat government we have very little chance of ever reuniting our country,that i have to concede... """""

Just to translate it for you Zan , what he said is what I also believe THAT given the present policies of the Tpapa government and the Talat government we have very little chance of ever reuniting our country.

We still believe in the Cypriot identity and we believe it will prevail when bigots , partitionists , unionists and bloody foreigners realise that we the Cypriots have a right to decide our future and the future of generations to come.

[zan]

BIRKIPRISLI WROTE:
""""Because those in the TRNC will become Turkish within 25 years...And you will be dead...so why should you care ""
In the case of these two it does not apply , they have already denied their Cypriot identity and embraced the Turkish mainland .Read what Zan wrote:

""""As for the unique identity….That has gone and good luck to it because we want to embrace a new more exciting one within the modern world """

Referring of course to theT/C identity , but as he says he wants to embrace a NEW !!! and more EXCITING !!! one within the MODERN WORLD !!

Which poem did this words come from , and what may I ask represents the new world , Turkey no doubt the nation that its people by the thousands are forced to become illegal immigrants in Europe and particularly Britain , they do not share your poetic interpretation of NEW and EXCITING MODERN!!! World.
It is laughable that and tragic that Cypriots today are committing identity suicide by adopting that of a nation that the other 27 Muslim countries do not particularly want much to do with it .
You seem surprised that drug barons exist in Northern Cyprus !
You also , based on your past , and just like VP the foreigner , twist words and events to suit your argument , just look at what you concerning Bir's quote :"""""you finish by saying you concede that we have little chance of reunification """
He never , NEVER said that , go back and read his post , remove your blinkers and read again , just to help you these are his words , a million miles away from your interpretation.

"""" ...But given the present policies of the Tpapa government and the Talat government we have very little chance of ever reuniting our country,that i have to concede... """""

Just to translate it for you Zan , what he said is what I also believe THAT given the present policies of the Tpapa government and the Talat government we have very little chance of ever reuniting our country.

We still believe in the Cypriot identity and we believe it will prevail when bigots , partitionists , unionists and bloody foreigners realise that we the Cypriots have a right to decide our future and the future of generations to come.

Based solely on a misconception and a refusal to understand what is being said. When did I say that our future as Turkish Cypriots and citizens of the TRNC are going to become Turks from Turkey and nothing else? We are quite capable of forming our own identity coupled with our past traditions and our present. If you are trying to tell me that the GC or Cypriot as you put it has been stuck in time and therefore represents the 1960s " true Cypriot, then that is what is laughable. You paint this picture that we as TCs have been bastardised and you guys have stayed exactly the typical and aesthetically correct Cypriot. Well you and Bir might still be stuck in a time warp but the rest of your fellow Cypriots has evolved. So please stop this denomination of a TC people that seem to know nothing about and a GC people that you seem to know even less about. I don't know if you have an agenda to alienate every single TC by belittling their ability to survive in their own right but that is exactly what you are doing. A recruitment officer you are not.

[BirKibrisli]

Based solely on a misconception and a refusal to understand what is being said. When did I say that our future as Turkish Cypriots and citizens of the TRNC are going to become Turks from Turkey and nothing else? We are quite capable of forming our own identity coupled with our past traditions and our present. If you are trying to tell me that the GC or Cypriot as you put it has been stuck in time and therefore represents the 1960s " true Cypriot, then that is what is laughable. You paint this picture that we as TCs have been bastardised and you guys have stayed exactly the typical and aesthetically correct Cypriot. Well you and Bir might still be stuck in a time warp but the rest of your fellow Cypriots has evolved. So please stop this denomination of a TC people that seem to know nothing about and a GC people that you seem to know even less about. I don't know if you have an agenda to alienate every single TC by belittling their ability to survive in their own right but that is exactly what you are doing. A recruitment officer you are not.

That is exactly the point,Zan.Speaking for myself,I do strongly believe that the TCs has the ability to survive on their own right and prosper as Turkish Cypriot community together with the rest of Cypriots.Free and equal citizens of one Cyprus. And I believe as strongly that we have no chance of surviving as TCs in a state like the TRNC which is not recognised by anyone in the world but Turkey.He who pays the bills calls the shots so to speak. And when Turkey says jump,you'll have to jump into the great Turkish ocean and sink or swim...If you sink,well your troubles will be over,but if you swim the only place you can get ashore will be the Turkish coast.End of story.Then you will see how new and exciting your new identity will be...

[Viewpoint]

Despite what Viewpoint keeps saying,I think I am being more realistic out of the three of us. The TRNC will never be recognised.My guess is that not too many TCs in the diaspora would return to the TRNC,given all the present disadvantages(shortage of electricity,water,lack of welfare services,the state of health care,the presence of the casinos and drug barrons etc)...So we have no hope of reversing the assimilation process,and the loss of our unique identity as TCs.Not to mention all the moral objections of living in a state built on other people's pain and misery.Personally speaking,I could not live in the TRNC even though my family has lost a lot of land in the South.You know,the two wrongs don't make one right thing...My only hope of ever returning to Cyprus is thus under the reunification solution I keep harping on.I believe there will be enough TCs going back to live in the Republic under a comprehensive settlement to give us a fighting chance of maintaining our TC identity in the short run,and forging a Cypriot identity in the long run without losing the positive aspects of our ethnic origins...But given the present policies of the Tpapa government and the Talat government we have very little chance of ever reuniting our country,that i have to concede...

Sorry Bir but you start off by saying that you consider your self as being more realistic than either VP or me and then you finish by saying you concede that we have little chance of reunification. Is that last part not what VP and I have been saying all along? If we have no chance of reunification then would it not be better to go our separate way and get on with life or are you saying that if we can’t have what you want then we should just suffer. I realise that you used the word “recent”, but who do you think is going to get into government (and this has to be done on both sides at the same time) that is going to change anything. Is Jesus about to come back? SO, the reality is that reunification is an impossibility. Where does your reality fit into that. You are still running on hope a wing and a prayer and it seems that VP and I are looking reality down the throat.



As for living with the unsavoury parts of the society in the TRNC and the Diaspora …..You do realise the countries that the Diaspora are living in don’t you? I realise that you live in the idyllic country of Australia (and I think that might be the problem with your idealist views) but the rest of us have to deal with these things on a daily basis. I of course do not mean the electricity or the water (although the hose pipe ban in and around London has only just been lifted) but drugs and casinos?


I have told you before that two of my sisters have moved back to the TRNC and it seems that every one I know is doing the same. Does this point to a disgruntled Diaspora. All I can say is wait until I get the patent on my electricity producing idea and we will have all the electricity and water we need. Who knows we might even give some to the south, although I cannot promise a constant supply and we might have to turn it off a couple of times a day.


As for the unique identity….That has gone and good luck to it because we want to embrace a new more exciting one within the modern world.

Congratulations zan great posts, agree with what you are saying 100% I truly believe the majority of TCs also think the same. There are hundreds of TC famalies form all over the world coming back to the TRNC or making preparartions like building a home ready for when they arrive. The life style and quality of life in the north is starting to attract them as more now than ever before they witness that their quality of life living abroad is worse than ours.

[Viewpoint]

miltiades

"you finish by saying you concede that we have little chance of reunification" He never , NEVER said that , go back and read his post , remove your blinkers and read again , just to help you these are his words , a million miles away from your interpretation.

But given the present policies of the Tpapa government and the Talat government we have very little chance of ever reuniting our country,that i have to concede... """""

miltiades are you with us or in disneyland? the two above quotes are practically the same. You are really stuck in time warp your lack of understanding and aging views are symbolised by your lack of understanding how to use the quotes function, everyone has moved on and left you behind.

[zan]

Viewpoint wrote:

Congratulations zan great posts, agree with what you are saying 100% I truly believe the majority of TCs also think the same. There are hundreds of TC famalies form all over the world coming back to the TRNC or making preparartions like building a home ready for when they arrive. The life style and quality of life in the north is starting to attract them as more now than ever before they witness that their quality of life living abroad is worse than ours.

I do find it perplexing that the picture Bir keeps painting has no reference to what is really happening. It does seem that his one aim is to get the refugees back to their homes and sod the consequences (the consequences being us the Turkish Cypriots). With that in mind, who can help but doubt his intentions. Even with the government, he has moaned that the TRNC has no say with what goes on and the one time they take control and are now being vilified by the Turkish press over that bloody bridge, he uses that against the TRNC. We are waking up Bir and that in turn is saying to the government that they too had better wake up. They are responding.