Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kikapu]

Kikapu, it is not as simple as that, I am sure you appreciate this. Zan, you should have been a writer. You have a talent, no doubt.

My question was meant to stir some scientific approaches to the topic, especially after the reading of the human genome. I believe some interesting stories came out of it. Statistics are also interesting. For example, first born males have a very small chance of turning out to be homosexual. The second, third and so on, child have an increasing chance of being homosexual. How is this explained?

I'm the second male in my family. I guess at age 51, I better turn Gay, before it is too late.

Of course it is not as easy as I threw that question at you, but people are not interested scientific answers towards Gays, they just don't want to accept them, no matter what the scientific answers are. So the only way you can answer these people, is in a way that they will understand, is to put them in the picture also, because they believe, being Gay is a choice and not something that one is born with. So then you can ask them very simply to answer this question, which is, " so, when did you decide to be straight"

The answer is of course, that they never did or had to.

[humanist]

Proud to be who he is. Miltiadis. Yes observer if a settler wants to be a proud Cypriot then yes be a proud Cypriot gay settler.

Well Mitliadis, we share something in common. When I was younger I famcied so much life had to offer, now that i am young I have and cherish what life has to offer and I appreciate it with delight and I am thankful to Alah that I have what I have and for what I have it for. including my boyfriend Guss.

[zan]

Kikapu, it is not as simple as that, I am sure you appreciate this. Zan, you should have been a writer. You have a talent, no doubt.

My question was meant to stir some scientific approaches to the topic, especially after the reading of the human genome. I believe some interesting stories came out of it. Statistics are also interesting. For example, first born males have a very small chance of turning out to be homosexual. The second, third and so on, child have an increasing chance of being homosexual. How is this explained?

I am not one for statistics because they are used too often in the wrong way as in the example I give my son when he quotes them at me, “99% of people that die eat bread”.


The example you give is sort of the same as in, if you have 6 children, the chances that one of them will be gay is increased by a factor of six. Same thing different angle. Use one dice and the chances of throwing a six are less than with three dice. If you have ever played Risk then you will know how many times this statistic can even be proved wanting when your opponent with one army can wipe out ten of yours.

[Bananiot]

Do not dismiss statistics so lightly, unless the science is manipulated by politicians. In this case this saying applies: statistics are like a bikini. What it reveals is important but what it hides is vital. In the hands of science, however, statistics is a powerfull tool.

There is a serious misconseption in your argument zan. It would be what you have written had we used only one family as the example. However, if the sample is significant, and this is how science works, the logical inference you describes falls short.

[zan]

Do not dismiss statistics so lightly, unless the science is manipulated by politicians. In this case this saying applies: statistics are like a bikini. What it reveals is important but what it hides is vital. In the hands of science, however, statistics is a powerfull tool.

There is a serious misconseption in your argument zan. It would be what you have written had we used only one family as the example. However, if the sample is significant, and this is how science works, the logical inference you describes falls short.

I am not a mathematician by any stretch of the imagination Bananiot and I did not mean to dismiss statistics totally but I still cannot see the difference in how many were in the census. If they found that 60% of the total were to comply to the fact, in my head the statement still stands that the more children you have the greater the chance of one of them being gay. Hence the 60%. I will not argue with you though because I can see that you have had more of an education in that field than I have.


If you want to look at it from an evolutionary point then variety would be the key to survival. If all the heterosexuals were to be wiped out due to a purely heterosexual disease, say, then the homosexuals and the lesbians could still repopulate the world even if they don’t enjoy it.

[Piratis]

Homosexuality is natural, in the same way that people are different in many other ways. For example some people are blond, some black, some short, some tall, some are disabled, some are retarded etc.

Some differences are non essential (e.g. color of hair or skin) while some other differences can created some problems that society should deal with them. (e.g. with disabled people)

Life itself requires that people of opposite sex are attracted to each other so life can continue. In the same way that we should show respect to people with disabilities, we should do the same to homosexuals, and in the same way that we would not try to create more people with disabilities, we should not try to create homosexuals either.

I believe that there is no straight answer to the question if people are born or made gays. I believe people can be born with some or more homosexual tendencies. If you have a lot of this tendency, then you will be gay regardless of the environment. If you have no tendency at all, then there is no way to become gay.

However some people have a slight tendency. Whether these people will grow to become heterosexuals or homosexuals will depend on their environment. For this reason I am against "advertising" homosexuality as an equal alternative, and I am also against gay couples adopting children (but I am not against gays being married, as this is something that will affect only their own lifes).

[michalis5354]

Just to widen the scope of the topic. Are homosexual people made or are they born. What about the so called gay gene?

Of course they are born Bananiot ! And If anyone is born homosexual then it is a part of nature! sexuality is not balck and white . There are people who are bisexual who fall in the middle and can have sex with both sexes. This is the complication of nature.

[zan]

If you saw my post with only the smilies on Bananiot I don't know what happened but the text did not come up. I have corrected that and was not laughing at you.

[Bananiot]

No zan, I did not see it, but I would't misunderstand you anyway. Since we are at it, there is a serious flaw in you argument. Let me make it clearer. If a couple have six male children there are increased chances that one of them would be homosexual, as you quite rightly say. However, what are the chances that the first born child is homosexual? Very small, research has shown. What are the chances that the second born would be homosexual? More than the first one, and so on. Why should there me less chances for the first born? As far as I know nobody knows the answer to this yet.

Michalis, you have given an affirmative answer in an absolute way. There is no sound scientific basis to support it yet. What is sure however is that something that is natural does not mean that automatically is correct, or morally correct.

[Bananiot]

Zan, I liked the explanation you gave from an evolutionary point of view. It could be part of the diversity trick nature plays in order to ensure the perpetuation of species. However, you do realise that this excuse can be used to explain (and excuse) almost anything.