Cyprus-Forum.com

[Alasya]

While I accept the G/C view that it was an invasion, it is important to understand that from the T/C point of view, (generally speaking), it was an intervention, a liberation that was long awaited.

I have sopken to T/C who have openly said they had longed for Turkey to save them as early as 1964 when attacks on the T/C begun and then intensified upto 1974 forcing them to leave their homes and move into enclaves during the period before 1974. But I have also spoken to G/C who have suffered a great deal of personal and financial damage, for whom it was a brutal use of force forcing over one hundred thousand of their people to abandon their homes and flee.

[erolz]

erolz,

i believe that piratis was just stating facts.

believe what you like

Do you think it is a fact that Turkey is the worlds leading violator of human rights? If so do you have any evidence except Piratis' post above?

Or do you think it is a fact that the only thing Turks know how to do well is kill rape and steal?

[donyork]

To understand what happened in 1974 you have to understand what happened in the beginning of this tragedy — and there is no excuse for not knowing. It may be helpful therefore to go back ten years to the the events which brought this about, and when it was not Greek Cypriots but Turkish Cypriots who were fleeing their homes — no less a tragedy, as I am sure you would agree. The following quotes, albeit only a sample, tell the story as it began in Christmas 1963. There are similar accounts for the years following and prior to the Turkish landings in 1974, all of them contemporary and all independently sourced.

We went tonight into the sealed-off Turkish Cypriot quarter of Nicosia in which 200 to 300 people had been slaughtered in the last five days. We were the first Western reporters there, and we have seen sights too frightful to be described in print. Horror so extreme that the people seemed stunned beyond tears’ — London Daily Express, Dec 28, 1963.

It is nonsense to claim, as the Greek Cypriots do, that all casualties were caused by fighting between armed men of both sides. On Christmas Eve many Turkish Cypriot people were brutally attacked and murdered in their suburban homes, including the wife and children of a doctor — allegedly by a group of 40 men, many in army boots and greatcoats’ — The Guardian, London, Dec 31 1963.

When I came across the Turkish Cypriot houses they were an appalling sight. Apart from the walls they just did not exist. I doubt if a napalm attack could have created more devastation. Under roofs which had caved in I found a twisted mass of bedsprings, children’s cots, and grey ashes of what had once been tables, chairs, and wardrobes. In the neighbouring village of Ayios Vassilios I counted 16 wrecked and burned out homes. They were all Turkish Cypriot. In neither village did I find a scrap of damage to any Greek Cypriot houses.— London Daily Herald, Jan 1, 1964

The Greek Cypriot police are led by extremists who provoked the fighting and deliberately engaged in atrocities. They have recruited into their ranks as ‘special constables’ gun-happy young thugs. They threaten to try and punish any Turkish Cypriot police who wishes to return to the Cyprus Government...Makarios has assured that there will be no attack. His assurance is as worthless as previous assurances have proved. — British High Commissioner to Foreign Office, London, Jan 12 1964

Right now we are witnessing the exodus of Turkish Cypriots from the villages. Thousands of people abandoning homes, land, herds. Greek Cypriot terrorism is relentless. This time the rhetoric of the Hellenes and the statues of Plato do not cover up their barbaric and ferocious behaviour. —Il Giorno, Italy, Jan 14, 1964.

Greek Cypriot fanatics appear bent on a policy of genocide — Washington Post, Feb 17 1964

UNFICYP carried out a detailed survey of all damage to properties throughout the island during the disturbances...it shows that in 109 villages, most of them Turkish-Cypriot or mixed villages, 527 houses have been destroyed while 2,000 others have suffered damage from looting. In Ktima 38 houses have been destroyed totally and 122 partially. In the Orphomita suburb of Nicosia, 50 houses have been totally destroyed while a further 240 have been partially destroyed there and in adjacent suburbs...thousands of Turkish Cypriots fled their homes, taking with them only what they could drive or carry, and sought refuge in safer villages and areas.—Report of the UN Secretary-General to the Security Council, Sep 10, 1964.

The effect of the crisis of December 1963 was to deliver control of the formal organs of government into the hands of the Greek Cypriots alone. Claiming to be acting in accordance with ‘the doctrine of necessity’ the Greek Cypriot members of the House of Representatives enacted a series of laws which provided for the operation of the organs of government without Turkish Cypriot participation. ..There is little doubt that much of the violence...and the displacement of about a quarter of the total Turkish Cypriot population was either directly inspired by, or certainly connived at, by the Greek Cypriot leadership.— Report, House of Commons Foreign Affairs Select Committee.

[erolz]

To understand what happened in 1974 you have to understand what happened in the beginning of this tragedy —

[/sarcasm mode on]

Hi don (may I call you don?)

No no you have got it all wrong. You are obviously new to the forum so I will try and explain it to you. To understand the events of 74 you only need to understand that Turks and TC are thieves and murderers, that always coveted their neighbours homes and goods and land. The events of 74 were motivated by the greed of TC and Turks who only wanted to steal from the honest hard working peace loving human rights respecting GC community.
Yes there were a few 'incidents' in the period before 74 conducted by a handful of hotheads on both sides but the vast majority of normal GC loved their TC brothers and wished no harm or misfortune on them. The real tradgey that befell these TC brothers was due to their leadership, which forced them from their homes and terrorised them and murderd them - and then blamed it on the GC community, in order to create an excuse for the Turks and TC to steal from GC.
The extracts you produce are not independent but from biased GC hating indivduals that have always sought to undermine and disparage the honest peace loving GC people. For every report you quote of GC atrocites I could (but wont) show another showing TC atrocites on GC and TC.
Please do not fall for this TC propaganda. There were a few incidents prior to 74, mainly perpetrated and exacperated by TC themselves but by 74 everything was peaceful. The TC had chosen to withdraw from government for their own reasons and the GC would have loved to have them return but they would not. No one was being killed or likely to be killed. There was a brief coup in Cyprus - again the work of a few traitorous GC called eoka b, but it was over in a matter of days. There was no reason for the TC community to have been worried about this. This was the excuse that Turkey and TC had been waiting for to execute their 'mater plan' to steal from the GC.
Anyway even if a few extermist GC did commit atrocities against TC it was nothing compared to what the ottomans did to GC in the past, so the whole issue of what happened to the TC is irrelevant, compared to this much greater suffering of the GC people under barbaric domination by Turks. There is no point dragging up the past (unless you are trying to create hatred and division?), there is just the problems of today we should be dealing with, which is Cyprus being occupied by barbarous Turks, who live like sultans with a life of luxury and pleasure in GC homes and lands that they stole from us. The only issue that needs resolving is how to force them to go away and return what they stole. Once they go away and return what is rightfully ours we can once again live in peace and harmony with our beloved TC brothers. We want this as much if not more for our TC brothers benefit than for ourselves.
[/sarcasm mode off]

[pantelis]

D of York,
Please push your fruit-cart to another neighborhood, because we are not interested in your “merchandize”. We have tried it in the past, and the ulcers you caused are still open.

We have learned that it was and is in your majesty’s interests to divide the two communities of Cyprus and to keep them divided, in order to maintain control her “vital” interests on the island.

Right now, all you care, are to hold the bargains you managed to grasp from the thieves in the north and to maintain lawlessness in Denktash’s "state", a paradise for criminals and crooks like yourself. Your days are numbered, my dear. You will soon face the justice you deserve, in a court of law.

If what you are saying are the entire and only "picture", why the guarantor countries, first and foremost, your own, the GREAT Britain, did not intervene to restore the so well “designed to fail” constitution, the one that with the rest of the NATO pact, forced on the majority of the people of Cyprus.

How can you speak about atrocities and genocides, when the British “Empire” invented genocide and atrocities, while terrorizing, raping and looting half of the world, for centuries, in the name of your pathetic kings and queens. You have given the first lessons to the ottoman Turks, how to wipe out nations and to Saddam, of how to gas the Arabs and the Kurds. Where were your reporters hiding then?

The criminals promoting division in Cyprus, were on the payroll of MI5, supposedly fighting the spread of communism on the island. Why don't you expose all the truths of the Foreign Office files, if you seek the truth?

[magikthrill]

While I accept the G/C view that it was an invasion, it is important to understand that from the T/C point of view, (generally speaking), it was an intervention, a liberation that was long awaited.

Alasya,

From Hitler's point of view the Holocaust was justified. However, by standards of international law (and humanitariasm) it was not.

[erolz]

D of York,
Please push your fruit-cart to another neighborhood, ....

Is this you idea of reasoned debate? Is this the best you can do in the face of his(or her?) reasoned posts? Personal abuse and insults? Do you know who donyork is to call him a criminal? Or is it enough to just not like what he is posting, to brand him with such labels? Is anyone who dares to challenge your precious notions about Cyprus and the innocent GC victims of events to be branded a rapist and looter and terroriser and criminal?

Given your reaction to don's post I am seriously tempted to post some more contemporary journalist reports from this period and from countries around the world. Given how much don's post has upset you and your reaction to this, you strike me as someone who deserves to be upset some more.

[pantelis]

Erol,
Did you miss one?
http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?p=8134#8134

[erolz]

Erol,
Did you miss one?
http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?p=8134#8134

No I ignored it, which given how you have behaved towards donyork is about what you deserve.

However you post did pre date your pathetic resort to personal insults and slanging match tactics in the face of donyorks posts, so I will give you the reasons why I ignored it.

I ignored it because it was a 'loaded question' (like so many of yours).

Why did you choose this historical document for your question and not one of the many modern alternatives that have evoloved from it since? You chose this document because it clearly only relates to the rights of indivduals and makes no mention of the rights of peoples as groups, which suits your purposes very well - but unfortunately we live in the 21st centuary an not the 18th centuary when this document was written.

If you want to ask me the same question in referal to a modern document, then I would have given you an answer. However given your behaviour in this thread I do think you deserve such respect. So you can try - but I would not advise holding your breath.

[Alasya]

Magikthrill

Its quite distasteful to compare the holocaust where 7 million Jews were systematically annihilated over 5/6 years (not to mention millions of Slavs, Gypsies, homosexuals, handicapped people and soldiers and civilians from both the Allied coiuntries and Germany), to a Turkish military action in Cyprus in 1974.

Since you want to get on to the subject of international law and human rights, can you justify how Turkish-Cypriots were treated before 1974? Can you deny that the G/C leadership created the climate for an invasion / intervention? AND finally tell me, what was Greece doing on the island only days before the first Turkish troops arrived? I suppose you are going to tell me they were lying down on their bellies sunning themselves on a beach in Larnaca while other soldiers sat drinking Ouzo and singing merrily while keeping an eye on the barbecue?