Cyprus-Forum.com

[MR-from-NG]

[/quote]"""it's not that he wants to become Greek, but that, he wants to remain Cypriot""

Well, we all want to keep our Cypriot identity. But I'm also very much aware that without Turkey there wouldn't have been any TC's left to keep jack shit. That would have been a problem for me.

But its obvious that for some it wouldn't have been a big deal if there were any TC's left or not, as long as they could be Cypriots that would have been just fine.

Anyway Bafidis spoke better Greek than Turkish so I guess they are comfortable with being just a Cypriot.

[Viewpoint]

Please don't take this the wrong way Bir as I believe everyone is free to marry who they wish but don't you feel you have let the TC people down by marrying first Turkish then Australian? Your children will never be TCs however much you may wish this, it is very rare to find mixed marriages where the children consider themselves Turkish Cypriot. Your TC line gene is lost forever and that is very sad for us as a people. If you were able to raise your children here on the island you would have had the opportunity to instill some of our culture and language in them. Can your daughters speak Turkish? do they know any of your culture and roots? have they even been to Cyprus? Now your attitude towards TCs is much clearer as in time you have become a TC in origin but more a foreigner of mixed cultures and beliefs, that why you have difficulty in identifying with your TC side first before any other cultural bonding.

I don't know if this makes any diference to your thinking,but I married Autralian first and Turkish second...Do you want to change anything in the above post,Viewpoint,before I reply to it???

No go ahead, Im interested to hear your view, are you still married to the Turkish lady?

No,Viewpoint,I am not still maried to the Turkish lady.
My daughters understand and speak some very basic Turkish,but their knowledge and understanding of my culture is limited to the cuisine which they all love. My son identifies with being Turkish primarily,and speaks Turkish as mother tongue,and is a fanatical Galatasaray supporter (like his mother!) while I support Fenerbahche!..He too loves the Cypriot cuisine,and is very curious about Cyprus because of his strong bonding with my mother who at 86 is still a tower of strength as most Cypriot women are.

It is not the fault of my daughters that they know so little about my culture and background.They are now 22 and 20,and I am working hard to make up for my past mistakes,because I was not available to them physically and emotionally when they were growing up. I was too busy being the driven,angst ridden,insecure typical migrant/exile who just had to work harder,laugh louder,eat and drink more,have the better car and earn more money than anybody else. I thought it was enough to provide them and their mother with everything money could buy,while I was searching for my lost sense of identity and belonging.To cut a long story short,after a turbulent life my world came crushing down when I was diagnosed with a life treatening illness at age 49. I literally had to stop and change my life entirely if I were to live to see age 50.During this process I discovered what was wrong with my pretentiously very successful ,but in fact miserable life.It was very simple really.I was denying my true self,my true identity which was a Cypriot above all.I was a son of Cyprus.Cyprus was my motherland.I had no other.I missed the sound of the church bells,the sight of the little blue and white houses,
the sight of those little village GC women in their black attire,the sound of Cypriot Greek,the sound of bouzikie,as much as I missed their TC equivalent.I was living in Australia but my heart and soul belonged in Cyprus.This does not mean that I don't value or deny the Turkish part of my identity.I love the Turkish language and music and literature etc as much as anybody else.But having learned English and also French as third language,I know that there is nothing special about what language you speak and what religion you believe in,they are just manmade systems of communication and belief (very much like computer softwhere),which are ment to help people make sense of their world.That these are used to divide and rule people should be forever condemned.
I feel closer to Kifeas,Piratis,miltiades,Bananiot,Cypezokyli, humanist,Kikapu,Pyro,Alexios et al, in heart and mind than I will ever feel for those poor(not materially) settlers in a million years.And if things go the way it is,and the TC culture is totally assimilated by the Turkish culture,where will my daughters go one day if they want to find out about their father's origins and identity?The only place they will find people with similar heart,mind,body and spirit as myself would be in the Republic of Cyprus,or Greek Cyprus as you would call it...That is why I empathise and sympathise with the Greek speaking Cypriots.I am one of them,except that I speak Turkish.And because I am not a practising muslim but a Sufi with his own belief about the nature and function of God,it matters little that they are Orthodox Christians.
I hope this has not turned into a long and boring sermon,Viewpoint.
But,as all Cypriots, I come from a long line of philosophers and bon vivants, going back to Socrates,Aristotle, Epicurus,Lucretius and Vergil...
A bit of self indulgence is in my Cypriot nature.

Thank you for your comments which are sincere and from the heart. You are definately a lost soul and no longer a true TC, life has watered you down to a degree where you can accept becoming a GC and you feel you are closer to them than you are us. If thats how you feel then good luck to you and people like you. Its obvious your off spring will never be "Cypriots" and have already taken on their Australian and Turkish identities, therefre you have left nothing to the TC people. This was your choice and you made it so you have to accept the consequences. I on the other hand married a TC lady raised 3 children who hopefully will marry TCs and that is what I leave to my community, I choose not to be a GC but a proud TC who wants peace and security for my family. I to have lived abroad and could have easily stayed and married a foreigner but from the inter marriages I saw 4 out of 5 ended in divorce and children confused of their identity and lost usually taking on the identity of their mother, which in your case is another prime example.

Although I do not forget our dark past I am a realist and I look to the actions taken or statement made by the GC leadership today and how they will effect my life and the secuirty of the ones I love. I have found nothing positive to acknowledge coming from the GC run "RoC" which if there were forth coming I would be the first to applaud. You have to face facts we live here on the island you do not, you have a yearning for your country which is no longer what it was when you left and can never be. Tcs will not go back to those times and will never accept putting their future and safety in the hands of purely GCs.

As for assimilation, you obviously feel it better that we end up speaking greek and going to church but the majority of TCs would agree with me that we would rather continue to speak Turkish and practice which ever religion we wish.

Tell your children that if on the off chance they should want to look into their fathers culture and heritage to in fact go south as you said you are one of them.....and not us.

My children are proud and know exactly where they are from the TRNC.

[BirKibrisli]

I feel closer to Kifeas,Piratis,miltiades,Bananiot,Cypezokyli, humanist,Kikapu,Pyro,Alexios et al, in heart and mind than I will ever feel for those poor(not materially) settlers in a million years.And if things go the way it is,and the TC culture is totally assimilated by the Turkish culture,

Yes, I consider Miltiades, Andry_cy to be my friends. I am very fond of Cypezokyli, Bananiot and Pyrpolizer. I would gladly share the same space with these people.

Birkibrisli, you have declared your love for the GC's and the Greek administration. You have made it very clear you resent Turks, our brothers from the mainland. It seems your loyalty and allegiance lies with our neighbours. Why not go all the way, the whole nine yards and become Greek? Changing your name wouldn't be a bad idea. You might want to change your name to Nicoli or Michailidis perhaps.

I put a lot of time and emotional investment into to a post,trying to tell you I lament the loss of my true identity as a Cypriot and you tell me to go all the way and become Greek...
I don't know why I bother sometimes.

Mrfromng...I did not declare my love for the GCs,I declared my love for myself and all true Cypriots. I did not declare my love for the Greek administration. In fact I do not think much of the policies of TPapa and most of his GC administration,but that is beside the point.
I do not resent Turks,they are welcome to that patch of earth that is called Turkey.I just don't like being colonised and subjugated by their military and government. I don't consider Turks to be my brothers.They are my distant cousins with whom I share two computer softwares,programmes for language and religion. Nicos and Mihalis are two of my favourite GC names,but I am quite attached to my own name,thank you very much...

[Viewpoint]

I feel closer to Kifeas,Piratis,miltiades,Bananiot,Cypezokyli, humanist,Kikapu,Pyro,Alexios et al, in heart and mind than I will ever feel for those poor(not materially) settlers in a million years.And if things go the way it is,and the TC culture is totally assimilated by the Turkish culture,

Yes, I consider Miltiades, Andry_cy to be my friends. I am very fond of Cypezokyli, Bananiot and Pyrpolizer. I would gladly share the same space with these people.

Birkibrisli, you have declared your love for the GC's and the Greek administration. You have made it very clear you resent Turks, our brothers from the mainland. It seems your loyalty and allegiance lies with our neighbours. Why not go all the way, the whole nine yards and become Greek? Changing your name wouldn't be a bad idea. You might want to change your name to Nicoli or Michailidis perhaps.

I don't want to speak for Birkibrisli, because I'm sure he will respond himself, after the sun comes up, in "Down Under", but from what I got from his post is, it's not that he wants to become Greek, but that, he wants to remain Cypriot. The TRNC in the long run, will not look, feel, or even taste like Cypriot. How can it be, when the majority will be Turks from the mainland, or have mixed through Turk-Cypriot marriages. TC's will die out eventually, therefore no longer TC's left on the island. Just because someone is born to a non TC in the TRNC, does not make them a "true" Cypriot, when their enviroment looks more like Turkey.

I made a phone call today to a certain Department in the TRNC, and what a got was a recording, made by a Turkish Lady, from Turkey. This is what I'm talking about. Imagine what the place is going to look like in 50 years time.
Birkibrisli believes, and I can relate to him in this regard, that unless the island finds a way to re-unite, what ever method, short of partition, the only Cypriots left in Cyprus will be in the RoC, in the long run. In order to maintain once Cypriotness, one would need to live in the RoC. That's what I believe what Birkibrisli is talking about, as far as relating to the above characters.

Would you rather that she spoke to you in Greek? So you think remaining a Cypriot means moving to the GC run "RoC" and assimilating into a larger GC population? its ok with GCs but not Turks?

[BirKibrisli]

I feel closer to Kifeas,Piratis,miltiades,Bananiot,Cypezokyli, humanist,Kikapu,Pyro,Alexios et al, in heart and mind than I will ever feel for those poor(not materially) settlers in a million years.And if things go the way it is,and the TC culture is totally assimilated by the Turkish culture,

Yes, I consider Miltiades, Andry_cy to be my friends. I am very fond of Cypezokyli, Bananiot and Pyrpolizer. I would gladly share the same space with these people.

Birkibrisli, you have declared your love for the GC's and the Greek administration. You have made it very clear you resent Turks, our brothers from the mainland. It seems your loyalty and allegiance lies with our neighbours. Why not go all the way, the whole nine yards and become Greek? Changing your name wouldn't be a bad idea. You might want to change your name to Nicoli or Michailidis perhaps.

I don't want to speak for Birkibrisli, because I'm sure he will respond himself, after the sun comes up, in "Down Under", but from what I got from his post is, it's not that he wants to become Greek, but that, he wants to remain Cypriot. The TRNC in the long run, will not look, feel, or even taste like Cypriot. How can it be, when the majority will be Turks from the mainland, or have mixed through Turk-Cypriot marriages. TC's will die out eventually, therefore no longer TC's left on the island. Just because someone is born to a non TC in the TRNC, does not make them a "true" Cypriot, when their enviroment looks more like Turkey.

I made a phone call today to a certain Department in the TRNC, and what a got was a recording, made by a Turkish Lady, from Turkey. This is what I'm talking about. Imagine what the place is going to look like in 50 years time.

Birkibrisli believes, and I can relate to him in this regard, that unless the island finds a way to re-unite, what ever method, short of partition, the only Cypriots left in Cyprus will be in the RoC, in the long run. In order to maintain once Cypriotness, one would need to live in the RoC. That's what I believe what Birkibrisli is talking about, as far as relating to the above characters.

It is good to know,dear Kikapu,that while I am in deep slumber down under,I still manage to speak my mind...But do you mind getting out of my head now,I need it to make breakfast. You have your own mind

[Viewpoint]

I feel closer to Kifeas,Piratis,miltiades,Bananiot,Cypezokyli, humanist,Kikapu,Pyro,Alexios et al, in heart and mind than I will ever feel for those poor(not materially) settlers in a million years.And if things go the way it is,and the TC culture is totally assimilated by the Turkish culture,

Yes, I consider Miltiades, Andry_cy to be my friends. I am very fond of Cypezokyli, Bananiot and Pyrpolizer. I would gladly share the same space with these people.

Birkibrisli, you have declared your love for the GC's and the Greek administration. You have made it very clear you resent Turks, our brothers from the mainland. It seems your loyalty and allegiance lies with our neighbours. Why not go all the way, the whole nine yards and become Greek? Changing your name wouldn't be a bad idea. You might want to change your name to Nicoli or Michailidis perhaps.

I put a lot of time and emotional investment into to a post,trying to tell you I lament the loss of my true identity as a Cypriot and you tell me to go all the way and become Greek...
I don't know why I bother sometimes.

Mrfromng...I did not declare my love for the GCs,I declared my love for myself and all true Cypriots. I did not declare my love for the Greek administration. In fact I do not think much of the policies of TPapa and most of his GC administration,but that is beside the point.
I do not resent Turks,they are welcome to that patch of earth that is called Turkey.I just don't like being colonised and subjugated by their military and government. I don't consider Turks to be my brothers.They are my distant cousins with whom I share two computer softwares,programmes for language and religion. Nicos and Mihalis are two of my favourite GC names,but I am quite attached to my own name,thank you very much...

mmfromng is right you have stated many times that you identify with GCs more than you do TCs so why not go to your utopia which is the GC run south and change your name to Nicos, this should then deem you a real "Cypriot" you could then live happily ever after with your other " Cypriot" brothers why do you admantly want to persuade and drag us into the same hole as yourself?

[miltiades]

Many years ago as a child of 7 , I shared a bedroom with 7 other children , eight of us in a dormitory 5 G/Cs and 3 T/Cs .We were all mates and shared our sadness and our happiness . The toughest kid was a T/C by the name of Mehmet . We called him "ASSOS " Ace , because he was numero uno. How can I hate him and the others with whom we shared so much. All Cypriot kids , now adults or in my case approaching old age with a pure heart and free of hatred towards our brothers and sisters. This is what Birkibrisli stands for and I stand next to him .

[BirKibrisli]

mmfromng is right you have stated many times that you identify with GCs more than you do TCs so why not go to your utopia which is the GC run south and change your name to Nicos, this should then deem you a real "Cypriot" you could then live happily ever after with your other " Cypriot" brothers why do you admantly want to persuade and drag us into the same hole as yourself?

Truly,Viewpoint,I don't know why I bother sometimes.
I pour my heart out,I tell you how much it hurts me to see the TC identity being extinguished in Cyprus,and you tell me to go and become a GC...

GC run South is not my Utopia.My Utopia is a United Cyprus run by Cypriots for Cypriots irrespective of their ethnic origins or which computer programme they use for language and religion. I will not be happy in a Cyprus without her TCs or her GCs. Is that really so difficult to comprehend???

Anyway,I am going to have my True Cypriot breakfast now.Fried eggs with halloumi/hellim.I'll wash it down with real black tea brewed Turkish style,while listening to Turkish music on TRT FM on the internet...
If I close my eyes to the sight of Eucalyptus trees and my ears to the sound of kookaburras in the garden,I can think I am in Cyprus...

[mehmet]

mmfromng is right you have stated many times that you identify with GCs more than you do TCs so why not go to your utopia which is the GC run south and change your name to Nicos, this should then deem you a real "Cypriot" you could then live happily ever after with your other " Cypriot" brothers why do you admantly want to persuade and drag us into the same hole as yourself?

Viewpoint, you are consistently missing the point which is that Bir regards himself as a Cypriot not as a Greek Cypriot. It is you and others who keep bringing Greek and Turkish into the discussion.

For my own part I don't believe we can turn back the clock but we have to embrace all the inhabitants of the island if we are to have a future together. That includes those who arrived after 1974 from Turkey as well as from Russia. Whilst we can't recreate the past we can create something new from what is present if the will is there. In that sense I disagree with Bir, the enemy is ourselves and our own prejudices not the people from the mainland who arrived afterwards.

[BirKibrisli]

Many years ago as a child of 7 , I shared a bedroom with 7 other children , eight of us in a dormitory 5 G/Cs and 3 T/Cs .We were all mates and shared our sadness and our happiness . The toughest kid was a T/C by the name of Mehmet . We called him "ASSOS " Ace , because he was numero uno. How can I hate him and the others with whom we shared so much. All Cypriot kids , now adults or in my case approaching old age with a pure heart and free of hatred towards our brothers and sisters. This is what Birkibrisli stands for and I stand next to him .

Long may you stand next to me,dear miltiades.
I look forward to the day we might even sit down and have a drink together,watching the sun set in our beloved Paphos...
We can have a toast for Assos.