Cyprus-Forum.com

[humanist]

Well there you go. In total agreeance with Miltiadis on this one. Thanks for stating it so sascinctly Miltiadis.

[Viewpoint]

Kikapu

All I'm saying is, I want to call 100% of Cyprus as my country of Birth, where as, you're happy to only remain in the 37%. We don't need to re-hash the whole past, but I do not get any sense from you, that you would like to see a 100% of Cyprus being your country of Birth, now or in the future.

There is nothing stopping you fom ding this the GC do it all the time they still believe we are not divided and the island is one whole, you can join their mindset and solve it that way.

For me the most important thing is the TRNC not the GC run "RoC", which is what I know and love. I see myself as I have done all my life a Turkish Cypriot from the TRNC and look to the actions of what the GC are doing positive or negative becuase if I am ever to consider reuncificaiton it would be based on whether I felt my life would be enriched or put at risk by living in a united island with people from the other side, who do not exactly ahve a very compromising mindset not now or in the past.

If one does not wish for the present situation to change, then present situation becomes the norm and a reality in one's thinking.

The conditions of change have to be more atractive than the current situation, which at this time they are not and do not look like ever becoming that way.

You tell me and Birkibrisli, that we live in a "Dream World", that the GC's will never change so that we can all live happily ever after. Obviously you have not had any problems within your close or extended family, where there are often problems. We have had and still do have problems within our family structure, and not everything is rosy, but we learn to deal with them in a special ways. One does not always love everyone in their family all the time, we just learn to tolerate them, but you cannot take yourself out of that "Family Tree". You're part of that tree. Therefore my friend Viewpoint, as Cypriots, we are all part of that "Cypriot Tree" and you cannot take yourself out, unless you're willing to cut the branch that you're sitting on, to separate yourself from the whole tree. I choose to remain part of the tree, therefore,

But what I can do is protect my family from those individuals or elements that will do them harm but stil remain firmly lodged in my own part of the tree until a times comes and things change.

I want to remain 100% of Cyprus.

This is only possible via a comprehensive solution where all our differences are fully addressed.

[Viewpoint]

VP , Bir included many as being closer to him , including myself , Kikapu and Cyperzokily.
I believe that I can say , in the same context that Bir had in mind and still does , that I'm closer to Mehmet , mrfromng , Issy1956 , Bir , Piratis , Kifeas , Bananiot and indeed to you and Zan rather than the Greeks of Greece , the Pontians , the Turks from Turkey etc. Of course we are closer to each other since our country of birth is none other than Cyprus , that makes us all first and foremost Cypriots. I will also add that knowing mrfromng as I do I can honestly say that I feel closer to him than I do to some Pontian Greek or mainland Greek for that matter.I feel closer to all Cypriots and I immensely disagree with those advocating violence and the division of our island. Some will have noticed that I voiced my opposition to any moves that would cement partition so opposing the introduction for instance of direct flights to North Cyprus is not an act of revenge or spite but purely an act of opposition to the creation of a separate Cypriot state on a permanent basis. Was I to accept that this would be of direct benefit to my Cypriot compatriots travelling in and out of Cyprus I would no doubt accept. But all it will do is establish a legality that the international community has yet to address , including the 27 other Muslim nations that have not recognised the North as a separate nation.

You can see yourself close to whoever you wish that is your right but you have no right to force it upon me this has to come naturally. And for me Gcs are behind as ex eoka leader turk hater who wants to enforce his own GC state on TCs, this will never happen as we will not allow it, the sooner people realize this the better. If you ever find a visionary leader who will invite TCs to create a joint state then we can talk and plan a future together but for now the current situation will continue for many years to come.

So what your saying is you are doing me a favor by keeping me isolated and not allowing me the rights which you demand and get for yourself? Is this so I will keep wanting a solution? then the same could be said for you? lets agree a level playing field where we have exactly the same rights, you have direct flights, I have direct flights, you have 10000 soldiers, I have 10000 soldiers, you have 45000 settlers from Russia I have the same and so on....what do you think or is to difficult to share equally?

[Kikapu]

Kikapu

All I'm saying is, I want to call 100% of Cyprus as my country of Birth, where as, you're happy to only remain in the 37%. We don't need to re-hash the whole past, but I do not get any sense from you, that you would like to see a 100% of Cyprus being your country of Birth, now or in the future.

There is nothing stopping you fom ding this the GC do it all the time they still believe we are not divided and the island is one whole, you can join their mindset and solve it that way.

For me the most important thing is the TRNC not the GC run "RoC", which is what I know and love. I see myself as I have done all my life a Turkish Cypriot from the TRNC and look to the actions of what the GC are doing positive or negative becuase if I am ever to consider reuncificaiton it would be based on whether I felt my life would be enriched or put at risk by living in a united island with people from the other side, who do not exactly ahve a very compromising mindset not now or in the past.

If one does not wish for the present situation to change, then present situation becomes the norm and a reality in one's thinking.

The conditions of change have to be more atractive than the current situation, which at this time they are not and do not look like ever becoming that way.

You tell me and Birkibrisli, that we live in a "Dream World", that the GC's will never change so that we can all live happily ever after. Obviously you have not had any problems within your close or extended family, where there are often problems. We have had and still do have problems within our family structure, and not everything is rosy, but we learn to deal with them in a special ways. One does not always love everyone in their family all the time, we just learn to tolerate them, but you cannot take yourself out of that "Family Tree". You're part of that tree. Therefore my friend Viewpoint, as Cypriots, we are all part of that "Cypriot Tree" and you cannot take yourself out, unless you're willing to cut the branch that you're sitting on, to separate yourself from the whole tree. I choose to remain part of the tree, therefore,

But what I can do is protect my family from those individuals or elements that will do them harm but stil remain firmly lodged in my own part of the tree until a times comes and things change.

I want to remain 100% of Cyprus.

This is only possible via a comprehensive solution where all our differences are fully addressed.

I don't think there's very much we disagree on Viewpoint. Of course one needs to protect themselves as well as their families. I'm sure the GC's feel the same way also. As I said yesterday, we are all from the same country, just from different times. I see your position philosophically as to why you think the way you think, and I hope you will see mine also.

[humanist]

Not sure why the following document attracts me to it. May be that there's a sense of autonomy and relief from outside pressure in relation to Cyprus problem and perhaps a sese of hope for a solution.

"Emin Colasan: Some truths about Northern Cyprus



A few days ago, President Mehmet Ali Talat of Northern Cyprus came to Ankara. First he had meetings with government members, at which he brought up the request to lift the Lokmaci Gate overpass, Lokmaci Gate being a top priority spot in terms of ties between the Turkish and Greek sides of Nicosia. I should note here that the Cypriot Greeks also want this overpass lifted. But there are a few other "unimportant" requests made by the Greek Cypriots that I would like to list here!

Here's what they say: "We will tear down the wall on our side and open up Ledra Street. But the Turkish and Northern Cypriot flags here must come down, and you must close down your customs building. And you must pull your Turkish soldiers out of Nicosia."

But we are not committed to making concessions to the Greek side of Cyprus! And now, surprises of surprises, you see that the Turkish soldiers are not willing to accept these requests by the Greek side.

Anyway, Talat came to Ankara and met with the Foreign Minister. He was in support of the requests made by the Greek Cypriots. And so he and the Foreign Minister get up and go together to the Turkish military's General Staff headquarters, where General Buyukanit and the other commanders mention their worries on this matter, and express their lack of support for the destruction of the controversial overpass.

In a statement made after his meetings with the military, Talat said "We did not speak about the Lokmaci Gate matter." Right after this though, the General Staff issued a statement saying the opposite, noting that in fact the matter did come up, and that Talat was not telling the truth.

Up until now, I have written the short version of everything that has taken place in recent days on this matter.

* * *

But just look at what we are really dealing with: the Greek Cypriots want the Turkish side to remove flags which represent a sovereign government. They want the Turkish soldiers to be removed from Nicosia. Meanwhile, some in Ankara and in our government actually look warmly on these requests. Why? Because they believe that in giving more concessions to the Greek Cypriots, we will look good to the EU!

And so yesterday, following the orders of Talat, the Lokmaci Gate overpass began to be dismantled. And so once again, we have blinked in the face of both the Greek Cypriots and the EU. The German Ambassador to Ankara spoke of the recent developments with words of praise yesterday. And I ask, can this blinking, this destruction of the overpass-despite what the military supports or doesn't support-actually take place without the knowledge and the permission of the AKP government? Of course not.

In any case, neither the removal of the Turkish and Northern Cypriot flags nor of the Turkish soldiers has taken place; the only step that the Northern Cypriot government has taken, in the face of lack of support from the Turkish military, has been the destruction of the overpass.

Here is what Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan said yesterday in reference to questions about Lokmaci from reporters:

"Is there no president or republic over there? In the end, it's their decision. And so what falls to us is to respect these decisions. The Northern Cypriot Turkish Republic has made its decision."

But wait, let's make sure there's no mistake here.....after all, one day there might be a decision from the "president or republic over there" that leaves us all gaping in surprise! For example, how would the following be?: "According to a decision made yesterday by the President and our government, Northern Cyprus is calling on Turkish soldiers to leave our nation as we are independent and sovereign, and is announcing that we are uniting with the Greek side of the island."

We learned something else from Tayyip Erdogan's words too yesterday: apparently, Northern Cyprus makes its decisions without conferring with Turkey! Maybe then our prime minister will make another announcment, something like this:

"Is there no president or republic over there? In the end, the decision is theirs to make. The Northern Cypriots have decided to unite with the Greek Cypriots. What falls to us it to respect this decision. May it be for all the best."


* * *

There are some things it would behoove us to learn, and learn well. The current state of affairs is in fact perfectly suited to the mentality of those running Northern Cyprus today. But of course, they are not able to express themselves so concretely in public. If they were completely free, here is what most of those leading Northern Cyprus would say: "Hey Turkey, let go of our coattails! We are Cypriot. Leave us alone with the Greek Cypriots, let us unite with them. That's where our real interests lie after all. They are rich, we are poor. They carry EU passports in their pockets. So pull out your soldiers, and we'll take care of ourselves, together with our Greek counterparts."


Some of our current leaders in Ankara think the same too. But of course, they can't actually express this in public either. Here's what they're really thinking:

"The Northern Cypriots are a load on our backs. They block us from entering the EU, and they are a financial strain too. If only it weren't for the Turkish public, and if only we could give a few more concessions to the Greek Cypriots, if only we could put Northern Cyprus up for sale, how great that would be. We would open our path into the EU, as well as relieve ourselves of the financial strain Northern Cyprus is causing us. Hopefully, those days will come along soon. Ah, if only there weren't elections this year....!!!!"

Anyway I thought it was empowering for everyone, Turkey for it progresses further into the EU, north Cyprus and its people and the Roc and its people.

[Viewpoint]

Kikapu

All I'm saying is, I want to call 100% of Cyprus as my country of Birth, where as, you're happy to only remain in the 37%. We don't need to re-hash the whole past, but I do not get any sense from you, that you would like to see a 100% of Cyprus being your country of Birth, now or in the future.

There is nothing stopping you fom ding this the GC do it all the time they still believe we are not divided and the island is one whole, you can join their mindset and solve it that way.

For me the most important thing is the TRNC not the GC run "RoC", which is what I know and love. I see myself as I have done all my life a Turkish Cypriot from the TRNC and look to the actions of what the GC are doing positive or negative becuase if I am ever to consider reuncificaiton it would be based on whether I felt my life would be enriched or put at risk by living in a united island with people from the other side, who do not exactly ahve a very compromising mindset not now or in the past.

If one does not wish for the present situation to change, then present situation becomes the norm and a reality in one's thinking.

The conditions of change have to be more atractive than the current situation, which at this time they are not and do not look like ever becoming that way.

You tell me and Birkibrisli, that we live in a "Dream World", that the GC's will never change so that we can all live happily ever after. Obviously you have not had any problems within your close or extended family, where there are often problems. We have had and still do have problems within our family structure, and not everything is rosy, but we learn to deal with them in a special ways. One does not always love everyone in their family all the time, we just learn to tolerate them, but you cannot take yourself out of that "Family Tree". You're part of that tree. Therefore my friend Viewpoint, as Cypriots, we are all part of that "Cypriot Tree" and you cannot take yourself out, unless you're willing to cut the branch that you're sitting on, to separate yourself from the whole tree. I choose to remain part of the tree, therefore,

But what I can do is protect my family from those individuals or elements that will do them harm but stil remain firmly lodged in my own part of the tree until a times comes and things change.

I want to remain 100% of Cyprus.

This is only possible via a comprehensive solution where all our differences are fully addressed.

I don't think there's very much we disagree on Viewpoint. Of course one needs to protect themselves as well as their families. I'm sure the GC's feel the same way also. As I said yesterday, we are all from the same country, just from different times. I see your position philosophically as to why you think the way you think, and I hope you will see mine also.

I definately see yours, which is of the past but mines in the current/today and the obstacles put before us which are the main deterrant to building a united future together. If the formula to reunificaiton is right then neither side will say no, but this formula appears to be nonexsitent as both sides are symetrically opposed to one another and are not prepared to compromise to a degree where both sides will meet. Do we wait until a time when one sides feel they can change enough to accomadate the other? do we wage a war to get what we want? or do we ask for what the other side sees fit for themselves? the latter is more closer to my viewpoint, whats yours??

[Jerry]

To me the logic of saying that settlers should be allowed to stay in Cyprus is really no different from the argument that refugees should be allowed to return, Some would say that on humanitarian and moral grounds both arguments are equally sustainable but why is it right to only offer some G/Cs compensation with no right to return and yet settlers can remain. This to me is the real Cyprus Problem - G/Cs will never accept the status quo as the starting point for a negotiated solution but the longer the division remains the more difficult it will be to solve. Turkey's concern for the T/Cs is a poor second for her desire for to a colony/military base on Cyprus, a base that will help prevent "Greek encirclement". There will be a solution eventually when the T/Cs are a political minority. Turkey will agree to a much smaller "share" (maybe 15% or less) of Cyprus in return for legal partition and unopposed entry to the EU - that may be an offer the Greek Cypriots would not refuse.

[Kikapu]

. Do we wait until a time when one sides feel they can change enough to accomadate the other? do we wage a war to get what we want? or do we ask for what the other side sees fit for themselves? the latter is more closer to my viewpoint, whats yours??

Of course the latter is the correct answer, and in a "unified" island, that's the least will be expected and acceptable by the TC's. But for the time being, we are all "pieces on a chess board". Everyone is playing a very defensive game, to avoid losing pieces to the other team, by making risky moves, that may be viewed as a concession or a gamble, let alone losing the whole game, so the GC'c will deny the TC's all the rights that they enjoy in the RoC, but certain rights are denied to the Gc's in the TRNC, that the TC's enjoy. A comprehensive solution is the answer, to give all Cypriots, 100% rights to their 100% Cyprus.

[Viewpoint]

. Do we wait until a time when one sides feel they can change enough to accomadate the other? do we wage a war to get what we want? or do we ask for what the other side sees fit for themselves? the latter is more closer to my viewpoint, whats yours??

Of course the latter is the correct answer, and in a "unified" island, that's the least will be expected and acceptable by the TC's. But for the time being, we are all "pieces on a chess board". Everyone is playing a very defensive game, to avoid losing pieces to the other team, by making risky moves, that may be viewed as a concession or a gamble, let alone losing the whole game, so the GC'c will deny the TC's all the rights that they enjoy in the RoC, but certain rights are denied to the Gc's in the TRNC, that the TC's enjoy. A comprehensive solution is the answer, to give all Cypriots, 100% rights to their 100% Cyprus.

I am willing to forgoe my rights so that each side is brought to a par will the GCs accept this? i doubt it very much.

[Pyrpolizer]

Believe it or not you guys the person in here I feel the closest is Viewpoint. I disagree and quarel all the time with him, sometimes he hits me on the nerves, but I don't know why, this is how I feel.