Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kifeas]

sotos, what IS your side? what is it that you are asking for that turkey won't give you? please tell me, i don't understand. as for this editorial, it may not say what cyprus wants, but i certainly don't see it as biased in turkey's favor. i think, if anything, it was coming down on the EU.

Here you are Gorilla! What we are asking from Turkey is to abandon its illegitimate irredentist position that in Cyprus there are two people and two nation states which may either live apart, or join only in the middle in a confederal agreement, while retaining their ethnically based statehood sovereignty; like it was also the case of the Annan plan.

We have accepted the RoC to evolve into a federation (and not a confederation along the above Turkish lines) back in 1977, as a result of the illegal Turkish invasion and ethnic cleansing of the majority of the Cypriot people (the Greek Cypriots) from their ancestral lands in the north; as an ultimate compromising step, in order for a political solution to be found and Turkish troops withdraw peacefully so refugees (or at least the majority) may return back to their occupied and usurped homes and properties. This is our red line, and we do not intent to step back from it. Federations exist many around the globe. The US is a federation, Australian is a Federation, Germany is a federation and so does Belgium, but none of them is anywhere near what Turkey demands and what the Annan plan turned out to become as a result of favouritism that the Anglo-Americans and the UN SG played towards Turkey.

We are asking for Turkey to concede and compromise to a federal solution that will respect international law, human rights and relevant court decisions, the UN resolutions, the history of the country and its people (not the history of the last 40-50 years but the overall history) and the principles and values on which the EU was founded. Is that wrong or to much to be asking for? The Annan plan did not meet most of the above parameters, which is why it was rejected. We ask from Turkey to abandon its intransigent position that because it accepted the Annan plan, it means that it is a closed deal on her part, or that she showed her good will for a solution of the Cyprus issue, because this is a PR bullshit (like the NYT article!). She (Turkey) accepted only a plan that was the result of Anglo-American pressure and machinations to favour her and accommodate almost all of her illegitimate so-called red lines and her megalomaniac regional geostrategic aspirations, and she has to pull back from this position, if she sincerely wants a solution in Cyprus and for her country to accede the EU one day. Otherwise, the diplomatic war will continue, and in the same way that Turkey uses all the weapons it has in her arsenal, including its military might, in order to safeguard her own thesis in Cyprus, so will we use our weapons, one of which is surely to veto and block her accession process to the EU one day, sooner or later and no matter how much her Anglo-American friends will be dancing up and down with anger!

Are you happy now?

[Issy1956]

Kifeas,
Thank you for spelling your position and red lines as it were. I dont have a problem with your proposals for the federal as opposed to the confederal solution along the lines of your post. The problem I do have is in believing the sincerity of the current GC ROC in their persuit of such an end solution. I dont see the ROC being very active in promoting and seeking to get together with the TC's to agree a solution such as the one you suggest. To the contrary the ROC seems to me to be wanting to avoid talks or negotiations using the the rather lame excuse that we cannot afford another failure and directs all of its energies in keeping the TC isolated and demonising Turkey as the cause of the Cyprus problem. This, as evidenced by the tone of the New York Times article ,is beginning to be appreciated by the international community.
There is therefore a disconnect between the solution that you suggest and the policies of the ROC which I suspect is the re-adsorption of the TC's as a minority by osmosis,if you like, into an unreformed ROC . If the true aim and goal of the ROC is the federal solution that you describe then it should be shouting it from the tallest buildings in all forums and dragging everybody to the negotiating table to trash out a deal rather than hiding from the calls of all and sundry to enter into a meaningfull and genuine dialogue to achieve an acceptable solution.

[GorillaGal]

thank you keifas for your explanation. i have to read this a few more times to fully understand the scope of what you are saying. so as i understand it (in part), the GC that were displaced wnat thier property back, yes? do the GC have a plan as to what to do with all those TC that will become homeless if that is honored?
thank you for your time in offering me an explanation.....

[Kifeas]

Kifeas,
Thank you for spelling your position and red lines as it were. I dont have a problem with your proposals for the federal as opposed to the confederal solution along the lines of your post.

Thank you very much! I know the majority of ordinary TCs do not or shouldn't have a problem with what we are asking, however, unfortunately Turkey does, and the sooner you -the TCs, consolidate this reality and stop listening to her propaganda and blindly line yourselves behind it, the sooner we will find a solution. The sooner you stop believing the rubbish they tell you that all we want is to dominate you or assimilate you or enslave you or convert you into a mere insignificant and powerless minority, etc, etc, and decide to also listen what we say and want, the sooner we will find a solution.

The problem I do have is in believing the sincerity of the current GC ROC in their persuit of such an end solution.

Unfortunately I cannot help you on this, because there is no way we should be required to prove that we are not elephants.

I dont see the ROC being very active in promoting and seeking to get together with the TC's to agree a solution such as the one you suggest.

I am sure you do not see it becasue you do not seem to want to see it.

To the contrary the ROC seems to me to be wanting to avoid talks or negotiations using the the rather lame excuse that we cannot afford another failure and directs all of its energies in keeping the TC isolated and demonising Turkey as the cause of the Cyprus problem.

Turkey and the TC leadership are the ones that want to avoid talks, by remaining entrenched behind the Annan plan and saying that they have done their part by accepting it, and it remains only us to also accept it as the solution of the Cyprus problem.

This, as evidenced by the tone of the New York Times article ,is beginning to be appreciated by the international community.

The NYT article is nothing more than a pro-Turkish PR (propaganda) article aiming to expiate Turkey's point of view and victimize the GC side’s positions. The Turkish foreign ministry has one billion dollars special budget for international media, international academic, world public opinion and foreign government "information" (influencing) campaigns, and the above article is just part of this spending.

There is therefore a disconnect between the solution that you suggest and the policies of the ROC which I suspect is the re-adsorption of the TC's as a minority by osmosis,if you like, into an unreformed ROC .

There is absolutely no disconnect between what I said and what the official GC policy is, visa vie the Cyprus issue. The only disconnect that exists is that between proper, thorough and objective information -outside manipulated propaganda; and the majority of the TC and Turkish public opinion.

If the true aim and goal of the ROC is the federal solution that you describe then it should be shouting it from the tallest buildings in all forums and dragging everybody to the negotiating table to trash out a deal rather than hiding from the calls of all and sundry to enter into a meaningfull and genuine dialogue to achieve an acceptable solution.

We are indeed shouting all these from the tallest buildings in all forums, only that you do not seem to have ears to listen to it; or you are only interested in listening only to what the Cyprus "mails" and the Banani(di)ots (the Rolandises, the Kleridises and the Loucases) of our side are saying to you.

[Mills Chapman]

Are you sure this piece isn't an anonymous op-ed by the Turkish ambassador to the UN in New York?

[Bananiot]

You are the idiot Kifeas, if I may say so, because you actually believe that Papadopoulos (Koulias, Angelides, Pittokopitis, Katsourides and the rest of his bunch) wants federation. You quite appropriately forgot to mention that what we agreed in 1977 and again in 1979 was a bizonal, bicommunal federation. Unluckily for you and your protege, those that matter in this world, have not forgotten and expect from us to honour our signatures. Just as they expected us to honour our signature in 1959.

Papadopoulos will never agree with BBF and all the tricks he is using will only get Cyprus partitioned. Also, when you threaten that we will veto Turkey and block her accession process you might as well know that at the same time we will be digging our grave. Of course, threats can be made by the mighty and when the minnows threaten, I can't help but remember of the elephant and the ant joke.

[donyork]

We read that the New York Times is guilty of biased comment in being critical of the GC position. So elsewhere we read that the Financial Times is also biased. So —though not mentioned — is the London Daily Telegraph last month which inter alia called Papadopoulus ‘deeply unpleasant’ and the Guardian newspaper which attacked the GCs, and so did The Times and for those who see only Anglo-American anti-GC bias did Le Monde which took the EU to task for its ‘hypocrisy’ in punishing Turkey for refusal to open its ports while failing to honour its own commitment to end TC economic isolation. Oh dear, nobody understands us. Poor us. I wonder why that is?

[Issy1956]

Donyork,
Excellent post. The whole world is wrong, biased pro Turk and against the GC's who must be the most misunderstood and persecuted people on the planet.

[GorillaGal]

is the whole world wrong? really?
is it possible that NO government is perfect?
oh no!--the horror of it all!

[Kifeas]

We read that the New York Times is guilty of biased comment in being critical of the GC position. So elsewhere we read that the Financial Times is also biased. So —though not mentioned — is the London Daily Telegraph last month which inter alia called Papadopoulus ‘deeply unpleasant’ and the Guardian newspaper which attacked the GCs, and so did The Times and for those who see only Anglo-American anti-GC bias did Le Monde which took the EU to task for its ‘hypocrisy’ in punishing Turkey for refusal to open its ports while failing to honour its own commitment to end TC economic isolation. Oh dear, nobody understands us. Poor us. I wonder why that is?

donyork, unfortunately for you and the rest of idiots that think your way, who votes for the president of the RoC is not the NYT or the Guardian, or the Financial Times or the London daily Telegraph, but the people of Cyprus. And since unfortunately for you the people of Cyprus will most likely reelect Papadopoulos again, for a new term in 2008, I suggest to you to put a Fez on your head and cross north, together with the rest of Greek speaking Janissaries, and join the Turkish occuaption troops and the illegal settlers from Anatolia and Bulgaria, because that is were donkeys like yourself belong. In this way we will at least know that all the opponents of the Cypriot cause are situated in front of us to the north, and none of them is left behind us.