Cyprus-Forum.com

[humanist]

VP Whilst I consider your statements and fears of violence ... I believe that in a free democratic nation and if we are all wanting to live in a free democratic Cyprus then all Cypriots need to have the right to choose where they live. This may mean that there may be more Greek Speaking Cypriots in the Northern State, That is the nature of the Cyprus demographics. Bear in mind tho that there are many Greek Speaking Cypriots who have immigrated overseas and of thiose if any only a handful will return, most of them are refugees from the North. There is a large portion of people who have built successful lives in the south with business family ties etc who will also not return.

For me tho the fundamental isuse is that if you fear of your fellow countryman (using term generically) then there is no point in us pretending to be compatriots. At the same time I appreciate that Turksih Speaking Cypriots may have experienced violence against them and are apprehensive.

It has also been my view that most Cypriots on this forum keep talking in them and us terms which I find unhelpful for any people's solution. Please consider my last point before responding thanks.

[Bananiot]

It matters to me Kifeas. Which other forum?

What you claimed that I said about Papadopoulos, I have said a thousand times in this forum. Get your ... fora straight, please.

[Issy1956]

Kifeas,
Bananiot wrote:
There are very bitter answers to the above my friend. Papadopoulos is a very shrwed man and he knows only too well that if he pushes for a solution he will have to face an Annan plan situation again. He knows that the solution that will be proposed will be one based on BBF. Thus, his term is nearly out and yet he has not made one constructive gesture at starting the solution process.

Irrespective of where this was posted isnt the essence of its content undeniably true? This is the point that is being made and that you (and Tpapa) need to answer. Has he been as vigourous in his persuit of a solution as he could have been? I my opinion no and I also think that this is view of the international community as well judging by the foreign press.

[Pyrpolizer]

Papadopoulos is a very shrwed man and he knows only too well that if he pushes for a solution he will have to face an Annan plan situation again.

If we trust our fate once again on the AngloAmericans as we did under the guidance of your beloved omniscient "Klerides the drunk" that would certainly be true. If we beg them once again to contribute, this is what they are going to do.

Their time is up though. We know it, they know it. So what are they trying to do now?They try to solve Turkey’s problems through the back door. Let them try as much as they can…

In the meantime of course the Cyprus problem remains unsolved, and this is not just our concern, it is the concern of the TCs as well. I don’t think the TCs are so naive to believe there can ever be a peaceful and lasting solution with a plan that the vast majority of GCs does not even want to think of. Therefore its about time the TCs move their finger in the right direction. The only way is new negotiations that would lead to something substantially different from the Annan Plan

[Issy1956]

Pyrpolizer,
"something substantially different from the Annan Plan

[Issy1956]

Pyrpolizer,
"something substantially different from the Annan Plan". Dream on my friend. It will come to haunt you in an amended form but essentially the same but with a different name. I propose it be called the Tassos plan.

[THE HIGHLANDER]

Sort it out in house,why let other people interfear,as its none of there bloody business in the first place is it !!!!!!

[Pyrpolizer]

"something substantially different from the Annan Plan". Dream on my friend. It will come to haunt you in an amended form but essentially the same but with a different name. I propose it be called the Tassos plan.

If you have the alternative to what you called a "dream" then show it to me.If again you think the GCs are so stupid they cannot see the difference between a plan that takes them 2/3rds of their properties and another plan that does not, then continue to believe in this.
Otherwise like I said there will be no solution.
It’s amazing how we accepted practically all your demands to move towards a solution, while at the same time you fail to accept our basic demands. If this is so then I say let our side remove whatever it accepted so far and start from the basics.You are 18% you get nothing more than 18% minority status. How about that to get things straight?

NB.Btw we do not expect anyone to "offer" us anything from now on. Whatever plan is presented to us it has to be worked out and agreed by US from A to Z.

[Viewpoint]

VP , since I consider you and all the other T/Cs to have equal rights in our country , that is your country and mine , it is imperative that any plan incorporates procedures that safeguard all Cypriots human rights. Fear of violence must be addressed so that all Cypriots feel entirely happy in their own country. The Cypriot government will have to abide by the EU and the ECHR , coupled with guarantees from NATO , USA , Britain but not from Turkey or Greece .

So for you its not a problem for the population in the north state being dominated by the GC majority? and the TCs being reduced to just another minority? How will address these issues? how will you balance power sharing and ensure there is no discrimination? will Tcs have to run to the EU every time they want to exercise their rights?

VP, with the right territorial adjustment (not the Annan plan suggested one,) and provided that the biggest portion of the TC community stays within the boundaries of the "North" state, there is no feasible way the GCs will ever become the majority in this state, even in the long run. Nevertheless, we can always find ways to regulate this issue, such as a closure which will regulate permanent residency status on the basis of the territorial ratios. This means for example that if one State amounts to the 25% of the territory of Cyprus, and the other one the remaining, then the percentage of Cypriot citizens holding permanent residency in each State will be approximately about the same as that of the territories of eah state, or plus /minus 1%-2% of that figure. Otherwise the federal government, together with both states, should take measures, primarily of economic nature incentives, but not only, in order to maintain this territory vs. population balance ratios. This automatically guaranties a TC majority in the "north" state, since already the 18% of people will be filled up by TCs. However, if for whatever reason, the TCs decide to empty the north by large numbers, and any measure to the contrary proves ineffective, then this will not mean that the north state will remain empty of Cypriot people, so that a TC majority of permanet residents is always and for ever present. Lastly, always remember that if you want no Greek Cypriots among your selves, so that your ethnic purity is not contaminated, you can always stay within only the 18% of the Cyprus territory.

Furthermore, you should realize that the north state will not institutionally become or regarded of your exclusive TC "ethnic" ownership (as you have tried to secure in the Annan plan,) and any GCs that will be returning to settle in the north should have no cultural and /or political rights (again as you have tried to secure in the Annan plan,) and that they should also be required to worship the father of the Turks (Ataturk) and take an oath in his name should they seek election in the north state's legislature (as you again have tried to secure in the Annan plan;) issues the majority of Greek Cypriots consider particularly immoral on your part to have tried to sneak them through in the immoral and illegitimate Annan plan. If you wish to worship the "father" of the Turks and the father of pervasive modern Turkish nationalism, you are free to do it day and night, but you have to realize that for Cyprus and for the Greek Cypriots he is nothing, with all due respect!

Now you are talking sense and you have included many elements which would be acceptable to the majority of TCs, well done and thank you. We have absolutely no problem living with GCs or do we wish to force Kemalism or Religion on anyone, our basic aim is to have a degree of self determination and rule within a designated area, where we feel safe and not exposed to any hidden agendas or decisions aimed at reducing us to a minority status in our own country.

[Viewpoint]

VP Whilst I consider your statements and fears of violence ... I believe that in a free democratic nation and if we are all wanting to live in a free democratic Cyprus then all Cypriots need to have the right to choose where they live. This may mean that there may be more Greek Speaking Cypriots in the Northern State, That is the nature of the Cyprus demographics. Bear in mind tho that there are many Greek Speaking Cypriots who have immigrated overseas and of thiose if any only a handful will return, most of them are refugees from the North. There is a large portion of people who have built successful lives in the south with business family ties etc who will also not return.

For me tho the fundamental isuse is that if you fear of your fellow countryman (using term generically) then there is no point in us pretending to be compatriots. At the same time I appreciate that Turksih Speaking Cypriots may have experienced violence against them and are apprehensive.

It has also been my view that most Cypriots on this forum keep talking in them and us terms which I find unhelpful for any people's solution. Please consider my last point before responding thanks.

You live in a a pink world humanist and need to understand that TCs want safeguards, they do not not want to put their future in the hands of GCs alone, they need to have a say in what will shape their lives and not leave it to the "majority" who cannot be trusted to have their best interests as heart.