Cyprus-Forum.com

[miltiades]

Issy 1956 wrote:
"""I for one couldnt give a damn if Turkey accedes or not. I very much doubt it that it will. """

Spare a thought for the millions of Turkish nationals who are living below poverty levels , and the thousands who risk their lives and that of their children's in order to get to the West , most of them now it seems arrive hidden in trucks in the UK. The Turkish people will benefit enormously by being in the EU. To dismiss such efforts by the Turkish government as immaterial and unimportant is to say the least uncaring. Turkey needs the EU just as the EU needs to have Turkey as a member for long term security.

[Pyrpolizer]

Piratis,
I for one couldnt give a damn if Turkey accedes or not. I very much doubt it that it will. What amuses and dismays me in equal amounts is the pure hatred that GC's like you and Sotos have for Turkey and the Turkish people. Hatred so intense that you will willingly sacrifice and divide our country in the vain hope of doing them harm.Amazing. Truly amazing. I thought so political naivity had died in the 60 but no its alive and well and living in Cyprus. I can now begin to undertsnad how someone like Tpap can be elected to be your President. Your President is truly cast in your image.
If the majority of GC's are like you and Sotos I must confess that you have converted me from a unifier to an avowed partionist. We can never live together in one country as one people.

Issy you should actually thank God that the GCs were convinced by AKEL to divert their hate towards Turkey and not towards the TCs. Yes there is hate, and don't tell me you are angels and don't hate the GCs for the events of the 60s.What happened in your case is that your hate was calmed down due to the revenge you/Turkey got in 1974. Our hate DID NOT CALM DOWN.

If you think we want re-unification just because we love you, you are mistaken.We want re-unification to get our rights back, and our hate will calm down after that and not before that.

You are not the only one among the TCs I heard saying you wanted re-unification but after seeing all this hate, you changed your mind. Well, you better start thinking straight. Re-unification for us does not mean we love you. And if we don't get our rights back be sure this hate that so masterfully was directed towards Turkey by AKEL will unavoidably change towards the TCs.This will happen both ways i.e either with no solution, or with a solution that deprives us our rights e.g the Anan Plan. I hope all the TCs in here finally understand an Anan Plan solution that is totally unacceptble to the GCs will have serious consequences AGAINST them as well, even worse than the 1963

[Viewpoint]

Issy 1956 wrote:
"""I for one couldnt give a damn if Turkey accedes or not. I very much doubt it that it will. """

Spare a thought for the millions of Turkish nationals who are living below poverty levels , and the thousands who risk their lives and that of their children's in order to get to the West , most of them now it seems arrive hidden in trucks in the UK. The Turkish people will benefit enormously by being in the EU. To dismiss such efforts by the Turkish government as immaterial and unimportant is to say the least uncaring. Turkey needs the EU just as the EU needs to have Turkey as a member for long term security.

miltiades I share Issys thoughts as I am sure many TCs do as well. If Turkey wants what you see for its people then it has to change, if it is not ready for those changes then it will not join. Our country (TRNC) is our main priority, this is where we live and where our future is. If we see a future united more beneficial than one divided then TCs will make the right noises as they did in the run up to the referendum. But for the last 3 years TCs have moved further and further away from wanting unification and more towards "well maybe we are better of as we are" mentality taking into account the negative rhetoric coming out from the south.

In order to change this tide the GCs have to take a real hard look at what they doing and see that their policies are only pushing away TCs, this change towards working together to develop trust will only come imo after your current leader loses power or dies, otherwise there is noway you can get a Turk hater ex eoka terrorist to agree BBF, he has taken an oath to keep Hellenism alive and in control of the "RoC" at all costs.

Gcs will in time see this for themselves but it just maybe to late.

[Viewpoint]

The only alternative is an end to the illegal occupation and the illegalities and crimes imposed by Turkey.

You are the ones who cause human rights violations, so how can you complain about the concequences of your actions?

We can stay unrecognized with all the benefits enjoyed by people all over the world.

The reason that what you created there is unrecognized is because it is illegal. Are you saying that you want to continue this illegality and crimes and face no concequences because of it?

If you don't want the concequences then end what is causing them. Very simple.

While we cannot agree a solution and you wait for the swing in power, then you will not object to us doing what we have to do in order to create a better life for our citizens and demand those rights that everyone else has as norms.

[Issy1956]

Pyrpolizer,
My family and I were made refugees in 1963/4 and we driven out of our home by GC's and eventually we left the country. Nevertheless none of us developed into GC haters in any shape or form. I can categorically state that I do not now or have I ever hated GC's as a people and I and most TCs do not see the tragic events of 1974 as revenge.
Some of my oldest and best friends are GC's that I met in London and I regret their loss as much as my own. We often joke with them that I have 10 years seniority on them as refugees.
We all lost our homes and in some ways our futures in the tradegy that is the Cyprus problem. But hey what the hell we all survived and moved on and made lives for ourselves.
The past is country that we can never return to. The notion that any of us will go back is naive and is getting in the way of a sensible settlement. If most GC's are driven by a desire for revenge for 1974 then we truly have no hope.

[miltiades]

Issy1956 wrote:

"""If most GC's are driven by a desire for revenge for 1974 then we truly have no hope.""""

NO NO NO ! WRONG ! No G/C that I know has revenge as his ultimate goal. Neither do T/Cs have revenge as their ultimate goal. All want a solution , a plan that will address the peoples fears and anxieties first and foremost and deal with the best possible way to ensure that the overwhelming majority of Cypriots are at least partly satisfied with any solution. Unless the majority of Cypriots , and this is common sense , feel that their grievances and their new nation meets just some of their concerns mostly on future security , no solution will be acceptable.
You can not have security that applies only to one section of the people and then wonder why the AP was rejected. The fundamental issue in my opinion was not the property issue but the security . One site felt secure with the presence of big brother , what of the other site ?? Anyone reasonable must see why I for one rejected the plan along with the vast majority. Should I trust that Turkey would look after the security of my granddaughter growing up in Cyprus with 40 thousand foreign troops. The answer is a resounding NO. And Issy I do not hate Turkey , you know that .

[Issy1956]

Miltiades,
I know you dont hate anybody but unfortunately not everybody has your views. I think you are wrong in thinking that property is not the big issue in the eyes of most GC's- it is the number one concern. Security is important too and with the Annan plan we had a timetable to get rid of all the Turkish troops over time. After all how many Turkish troops went home with the big no-not a single one. The GC's must be comfortable with having 40,000 soldiers in the north-it probably cools the ardour of some of the hotheads from doing anything silly.

[cypezokyli]

as far as i can recall, there was no such demand. or am i wrong on this ?

Yes, you are.They did demand that Bulgarian citizens be allowed to cross back in 2005, when the Greek Cypriot administration prevented a few hundred people from voting in the embassy for the presidential elections in Bulgaria.

thanks for the info.

yesterday though the ambassador of your country, did call those bg_turks "settlers" .
he ofcource claimed that they should be allowed freedom of moovement, which they are anyway , but he nevertheless called them "settlers"

[RAFAELLA]

I have a guestion:

Since the BG Turkish settlers are happy in "trnc" why they make such a fuss to enter the free areas of the CY republic?
...what's their purpose?

[Pyrpolizer]

Pyrpolizer,
My family and I were made refugees in 1963/4 and we driven out of our home by GC's and eventually we left the country. Nevertheless none of us developed into GC haters in any shape or form. I can categorically state that I do not now or have I ever hated GC's as a people and I and most TCs do not see the tragic events of 1974 as revenge.
Some of my oldest and best friends are GC's that I met in London and I regret their loss as much as my own. We often joke with them that I have 10 years seniority on them as refugees.
We all lost our homes and in some ways our futures in the tradegy that is the Cyprus problem. But hey what the hell we all survived and moved on and made lives for ourselves.
The past is country that we can never return to. The notion that any of us will go back is naive and is getting in the way of a sensible settlement. If most GC's are driven by a desire for revenge for 1974 then we truly have no hope.

No Issy it is not revenge that the GCs want.It is simply their rights back. Please treat the word revenge that I wrote before for he TCs as having taken "revenge" in 1974 in that context.

Now about your feelings towards the GCs for having to abandon the Country in 1963: Too many people TCs/GCs were actually looking for a better future abroad those years. So the unstable situation was not really the main reason why they left.It was just an additional reason. Too many TCs actually left because TMT was looking around to kill them after they refused to convert from "resistance fighters" to "plain murderers". I am sure you know these facts better than me. Some of those people left for a better future and never looked back. You are one of them. There are many like you. There were you've gone you found GCs and you discovered you are closer to them than you were with the British. So you actually started been friends. We have hundreds of examples in here like you, look at Miltiades for example.

All you guys are never going to come back and live here. You are actually considered foreigners by your own breed, I know very well how the GCs coming from England are regarded here.They are called "Charlies" or "Johnies". A strange type of foreigners... For you the property issue and many other issues that are important to locals are not important because you live abroad, and do not really expect to have any future here. And even if you finally return you can always go back any time you like.

For us here it is different. All these issues define our own future. There cannot be any solution that will not give each one his rights.For the GCs is their rights on their properties for the TCs is their rights to have a kind of autonomy. Deprive anyone these rights and there is hate and no solution.