Cyprus-Forum.com

[BirKibrisli]

We certainly live in interesting times,as the Chinese curse would say...

[Pyrpolizer]

VP,

Tasos said from the begining:
a)Demilitarise the area on both sides.
b)Remove offensive symbols
c)De-mining of the area.
d)Safeguard the condemned buildings so they don't fall on people.

What did your side do out of all these?

It builted a bridge, it took off the bridge.

Where are we now?

AT SQUARE ONE!!!

[BirKibrisli]

We might be at square one now,Pyro,but we don't need to stay there.
If Tpapa makes the next move and perhaps pulls down the wall on the Republic side,this will give Talat the ammunition to demand the removal of the national symbols and the Turkish soldiers from Lokmaci.

This is what I mean when I say TPapa must show he is prepared to help Talat in his struggle to wrest back some power from the Turkish military.
Make no mistake about it...Talat was humiliated in the process but he did win in the end.This is a first for TRNC and Turkish political life. The will of the politicians prevailed over the will of the Military,because of political pressures put on the Military. This can be the beginning of something significant,if Papa is astute enough to take advantage of it...But I am not holding my breath.

[Pyrpolizer]

Bir sorry I don't agree with you.

Let's take things from the beggining shall we?
Tasos said, OK I agree to open that crossing assuming we will BOTH do a,b,c,d. Notice this is a very important crossing, it is in the heart of Nicosia (capital of ROC) there is practically no dead zone (only 10 meters) so it is actually extremely dangerous to have soldiers there, while the civilians cross.

Talat totally ignored Tasos, went on to his militants they told him OK you can have people crossing if you build a bridge over our patrolling areas. Talat once again ignoring Tasos and builted the bridge.

Now you know very well that the Generals did not actually object to the knocking down of the bridge itself. They objected to opening that point and have civilians mess in their feet. Talat did not win any battle with them. In fact after they ridiculed him they gave their consent for JUST the knocking down of the bridge.DONT BE SO SURE THEY ACCEPTED TO HAVE THAT CROSSING OPENING.

Two things are possible here
a) they let him knock down the bridge after they were assured that it is practically impossible for Tasos to open the crossing. And if he does they will stage an incident having someone killed so they force the GCs to close it.
or b) The military realised that the ridiculing of Talat started backfiring so they gave their consent having ALREADY MADE PLANS TO MAKE SURE THE CROSSING WILL NOT OPEN
or c)They simply backed off this time, but Talat became a history for them already. In other words they will get rid of him soon.
Each of the above is just a possibility.

Now you tell me Tasos should help Talat (?) so that he gets rid of the soldiers there as well.

Are you SURE this is what Talat wants??? Are you SURE the Generals consented to the opening of the crossing?
Would you like Tasos sacrifice the life of 2-3 GCs to find out?

[Pyrpolizer]

What I mean to say if Talat really wanted Tasos help to override the Generals, then he should have thought of that when he totally ignored him and started acting unilaterally just to show off.

For your information it was Tasos who first proposed the opening of that crossing (together with some other 10 points). The TC side only accepted the crossing at Zodia, so far.BOTH serve only the TCs, none of other crossings Tasos proposed that would benefit the GCs were ever accepted.

[andri_cy]

He has to move in accordance with his only ally Turkey, why not ask the same of Tasoss? when will he go and knock down the wall with Christofiyas? and his other cronies.

Tassos and Christofias are from the same country. Why does Talat have to go to a foreign nation to ASK if he can do something in his own country? That does not sound very sensible to me, and all I see is you trying to make excuses. I am not saying Tassos is any better but darn....

[BirKibrisli]

Bir sorry I don't agree with you.

Let's take things from the beggining shall we?
Tasos said, OK I agree to open that crossing assuming we will BOTH do a,b,c,d. Notice this is a very important crossing, it is in the heart of Nicosia (capital of ROC) there is practically no dead zone (only 10 meters) so it is actually extremely dangerous to have soldiers there, while the civilians cross.

Talat totally ignored Tasos, went on to his militants they told him OK you can have people crossing if you build a bridge over our patrolling areas. Talat once again ignoring Tasos and builted the bridge.

Now you know very well that the Generals did not actually object to the knocking down of the bridge itself. They objected to opening that point and have civilians mess in their feet. Talat did not win any battle with them. In fact after they ridiculed him they gave their consent for JUST the knocking down of the bridge.DONT BE SO SURE THEY ACCEPTED TO HAVE THAT CROSSING OPENING.

Two things are possible here
a) they let him knock down the bridge after they were assured that it is practically impossible for Tasos to open the crossing. And if he does they will stage an incident having someone killed so they force the GCs to close it.
or b) The military realised that the ridiculing of Talat started backfiring so they gave their consent having ALREADY MADE PLANS TO MAKE SURE THE CROSSING WILL NOT OPEN
or c)They simply backed off this time, but Talat became a history for them already. In other words they will get rid of him soon.
Each of the above is just a possibility.

Now you tell me Tasos should help Talat (?) so that he gets rid of the soldiers there as well.

Are you SURE this is what Talat wants??? Are you SURE the Generals consented to the opening of the crossing?
Would you like Tasos sacrifice the life of 2-3 GCs to find out?

I see your points,Pyro,and there is a lot of sense in what you say.
But we need to start cooperating as Cypriots to get what is good for Cyprus. Talat is in a very tight corner. I believe he is genuinly trying to assert himself over Turkey and the military,but as you can imagine taht is very difficult given the circumstances. Talat is not Denktash. He does not believe that the status quo is the final solution. He wants to make progress towards a solution.But he can't do it all by himself,especially not if Papa too tries to trip him up as well as the Military and the Turkish nationalists both in Cyprus and in Turkey.

I agree it was wrong and stupid to build that bloody bridge in the first place. But perhaps he was trying to do the same as he is doing now,putting one over the Military and not over Papadopoulos.I don't know,I am only giving him the benefit of the doubt. Talat cannot fight the Turkish military by force of arms. He has to fight them politically,and be clever enough to checkmate them,as I believe he has done in this instance. But if we want to turn this into a step towards a solution,papa had to come to the party now.We only have a small window of opportunity.Because as you said,the Military is now plotting Talat's demise as we speak. One other thing in Talat's favour is the AKP government in Ankara. They are not fond of the MIlitary either,hence prepared to let Talat score some wins over the Army. If the nationalists come to power in this years elections in September (I think),it is curtains for Talat.Curtains for any other solution than partition.Please don't make a mistake about that...

[Pyrpolizer]

You are a very sensible person Bir and you have deep vision on matters, I actually feel embarassed arguing with you. What you are saying makes sense.

You know this "bridge coming down" story started when we elected Eleni Mavrou an Akel woman MP as new Nicosia Mayor a couple of weeks ago. This woman is and was a supporter of Anan Plan. She is a good woman, although I don't agree with her, neither I am a communist.
Anyway the first thing she did was to meet the TC mayor and Soyer and they decided to do a new year present for her, i.e the knocking down of the bridge.

I am certain Akel is currently pushing hard to show good face and graditute to CTP for their gentle gesture to do this present to their woman Mayor.
So perhaps they will convince Tasos to open the crossing. And horray Talat will even indirectly get the help he wanted from Tasos!

Yes it's a bit funny my friend. If it were upto Tasos only, this guy only knows 1+1=2 (he lives in the 60s). He is unable to to figure 1+2-1 again =2

[BirKibrisli]

You are a very sensible person Bir and you have deep vision on matters, I actually feel embarassed arguing with you. What you are saying makes sense.

You know this "bridge coming down" story started when we elected Eleni Mavrou an Akel woman MP as new Nicosia Mayor a couple of weeks ago. This woman is and was a supporter of Anan Plan. She is a good woman, although I don't agree with her, neither I am a communist.
Anyway the first thing she did was to meet the TC mayor and Soyer and they decided to do a new year present for her, i.e the knocking down of the bridge.

I am certain Akel is currently pushing hard to show good face and graditute to CTP for their gentle gesture to do this present to their woman Mayor.
So perhaps they will convince Tasos to open the crossing. And horray Talat will even indirectly get the help he wanted from Tasos!

Yes it's a bit funny my friend. If it were upto Tasos only, this guy only knows 1+1=2 (he lives in the 60s). He is unable to to figure 1+2-1 again =2

Thanks for the compliment,Pyro,but there is no need to feel embarrassed arguing with me. I don't claim to know everything or have all the answers. I just call things as I see them. I might have one advantage life has forced on me,I can emphatise,can put myself into other people's shoes and feel what they are feeling.And I like giving people the benefit of the doubt.

Thanks for your comments of Eleni Mavrou. I dont know much about her,but will keep my antenna out.
Tasos is our president and we should support him when he does something good,but also encourage him to do what we think is right sometimes. I do strongly believe Talat must be supported now while he has the initiative and the momentum to take positive steps.It will be very sad if we lose this opportunity too!

[Viewpoint]

Birkibrisli

Tasos is our president

So do Gcs view Talat as their Vice President? you have lived away for so long you have become assimilated into the Greek Cypriot mentality of thinking Tasoss represents you and your interests. Well Bir as long as we are divided he only represents GCs as he often confirms by his words and actions to maintain an unfair hold on Tcs so they "want a solution". You really need a kick up the back sides and a dose of reality serum. This ex eoka Turk hater can never represent us not even in a united Cyprus as he is to put it mildly a racist adulterer who has no principles but the ones that suit him the GC cause to take control of the whole island and turn it into a GC state. So when you make comments like the above think about the insult you have just hurled at 260.000 TCs. Well done you should feel very proud of yourself.