Cyprus-Forum.com

[pantelis]

Sea change for Turkey ahead - Foreign Minister

Turkey must completely changes its societal attitudes as well as reforming its economy if it is serious about joining the European Union.

That is according to the country's foreign minister, Abdullah Gul, who was speaking at the Turkish National Assembly.

He said Turkey must change its mentality, rules and norms. He added the negotiating process will be lengthy.

A week after the EU gave the thumbs up to beginning membership talks with Turkey, senior European politicians have been touting the benefits of joining - not only for Turkey but for the bloc too.

Belgian Prime Minister Guy Verhofstadt said Turkey's entry would help the bloc to combat fundamentalism. He also said he wasn't opposed to referendums in all 25 countries on the Turkish question.

Dutch Foreign Minister Ben Bot - whose country holds the rotating presidency - claims Turkish membership will help increase European influence around the world.

With its borders with Syria, Iran and Iraq, Turkey would bring strategic benefits to the EU club. Bot said one of the dangers of refusing membership would be that the Islamic world may regard it as a slap in the face.

http://www.euronews.net/create_html.php ... bf34cfd69e


Insan,
If I were to deal with you Or TCs Like you, I am sure we would easily agree on the best solution of the Cyprus question. I am not ignoring your well intended "solutions". It is not enough, though, for just the two of us to agree.

The real problem is Turkey and its so far.. destructive foreign and domestic policies. I have said so, many times. That's what I believe. Yes we, the GCs, have many made mistakes in the past. The time has come, to start making things permanently right, not permanently wrong. That is why I was against the Annan plan, and that is why I was against the veto to Turkey's EU path. The road to EU may be long, but it's not a path any more, it is the only way to peace. If all nations play with the same rules and laws, inside and outside their countries, then we won't have any more wars. Peace brings prosperity and prosperity brings peace.

As you can see in the above article, there will be referenda, in all 25 countries, to decide whether Turkey can join the EU or not. It is not up to "friendly" or "unfriendly" governments and politicians anymore. It is not up to Papadopoulos or who ever leads the RoC as a country or as a GC/TC Federation (who knows by then). The votes in all EU countries will be one person-one vote. The TC vote will not count more than the GC vote.

Turkey needs to win the minds and hearts of the EU people, including the GCs, with actions and real change, before they can accept the Turkish people in the EU family.

I have also said, many times in the past, that the culture of the Greek people (both in Greece and in Cyprus) has more things in common with the Turkish culture, than with the any other European culture. We think the same, we eat the same, we laugh the same and we get along (or not) with each other the same. If the politicians do not bring our people closer to each other, with their actions, we will always stay apart.
Cyprus should become the place that unites the two cultures. Until today, it has been the one that divides them. The two mother-lands have used this division tactics in order to capitalize internally, thus destroying what could have been each country's best ally, turning us into our "worst enemies".
The enemy Kardes, comes from within!

Actions speak louder than words.

[insan]

Pantelis, as I said before; theory and practice are completely two different concepts... In Cyprus and also the world we live in, there are so many serious problems which prevent the human beings to implement even %20 of what the theory says.

We can virtually solve the Cyprus problem on the basis of ideal theory but when the existing factors have been taken into consideration; it's not hard to see that any solution based on theory would collapse before it has been started.


On the otherhand, efforts to find out a feasible joint acceptable solution also failed because Greeks, Turks and Cypriots who has more things in common with each others culture, than with the any other European culture; have nothing in common when the issue has been focused to interests of the countries, communities, different interest groups within those countries and communities...


Thus; it seems to me that a new phase of interest clashes, conflicts, intercommunal and international strifes will inevitabley knock our doors soon... After the big catastrophe, we talk again how to build a new fair world, if of course we would be able to survive...

[pantelis]

Insan,
You are missing my point, again!
You continue to deal with concepts of the past, like one nation dominating over another, etc, etc.
Today, the issue is not who is going to dominate over who, but who is going to survive. Globalization knows no borders and recognizes no nationalities or religions. People need people, to depend on and to get strength from, regardless of the colour of their skin or the language they speak or their place of prayer.
The shortsightness of today will be paid back in multiples, tomorrow. The unfair rules and laws you create in your favor today, will hit you back tomorrow, when you find yourself on the opposite side of the table.
That's all I can offer to this forum.

[insan]

Insan,
You are missing my point, again!
You continue to deal with concepts of the past, like one nation dominating over another, etc, etc.
Today, the issue is not who is going to dominate over who, but who is going to survive. Globalization knows no borders and recognizes no nationalities or religions. People need people, to depend on and to get strength from, regardless of the colour of their skin or the language they speak or their place of prayer.
The shortsightness of today will be paid back in multiples, tomorrow. The unfair rules and laws you create in your favor today, will hit you back tomorrow, when you find yourself on the opposite side of the table.
That's all I can offer to this forum.

Pantelis, I've got your point but I think you are missing so much important details in essentials of that point. Can't you see that even Akinci, Angolemli, Durduran, Izcan and even Levent don't trust Papadopulos and who are around him? Doesn't this make any sense for you?

[erolz]

As you can see in the above article, there will be referenda, in all 25 countries, to decide whether Turkey can join the EU or not.

The above article says no such thing. It says the belgium premier 'was not opposed' to their being seperate refrenda - not that there will be.

It is not up to "friendly" or "unfriendly" governments and politicians anymore.

Whether a country has a refernda on Turkish entry IS up to each countires government and politicians.

It is not up to Papadopoulos or who ever leads the RoC as a country or as a GC/TC Federation (who knows by then).

Wrong. See above.

The votes in all EU countries will be one person-one vote. The TC vote will not count more than the GC vote.

But the GC / Cypriot vote (IF your politicians decide to have a referendum on the issue) will count 6 or 7 or more times than a UK vote a German vote a French vote. I don't see you 'crying' about the fundamental unfairness and anti democracy of this!

Cyprus should become the place that unites the two cultures. Until today, it has been the one that divides them. The two mother-lands have used this division tactics in order to capitalize internally, thus destroying what could have been each country's best ally, turning us into our "worst enemies".

It was the 'motherlands', you plead. Cypriots loved each other really. We held no hatred for each other. We didn't want to kill each other, oppress each other, ignore each others concerns - the motherlands made us do it. We are not really responsible for these actions.

Yeah right!

Actions speak louder than words.

They certainly do! Cyprus' histroy is littered with 'actions' that have spoken much louder than your 'fine words' of peace and living togeather in Cyprus (provided TC give GC all that they want, that is - If not, as Piratis constantly remainds us - we will be your enemy).

[-mikkie2-]

It was the 'motherlands', you plead. Cypriots loved each other really. We held no hatred for each other. We didn't want to kill each other, oppress each other, ignore each others concerns - the motherlands made us do it. We are not really responsible for these actions.

Erol,

I'm afraid that I do not wholly agree with you. You cannot tar all Cypriots with the same brush. The majority of ordinary Cypriots had no problems with eachother. The actions of the few cannot be extrapolated to represent the many.

[Bananiot]

Allow me to give a direct answer to the question asked. Cyprus cannot veto the accession of Turkey by itself. It is by far too small and insignificant member to stand against the geopolitical policies of the big nations. Cyprus cannot do it the same way Malta or Luxemberg cannot do it. Any chance Cyprus had to pressurise Turkey was lost in April when we said "no" to the proposed by the UN and supported by the EU AND Turkey Anan plan. Erdogan has an argument that wins him many points. We have done everything the international community has asked from us regarding the solution to the Cyprus issue, Erdogan utters and case closed! We mummble about rejecting the plan and not the solution but when we are asked to give the changes we require to say "yes" to the plan, we lose our voice. In the meantime, the initiative rests with Ertogan and of course in October we will once again find ourselves in splendid isolation and of course, we will never use our veto, because if Papadopoulos, despite everything, uses his veto, this will mean the begining of his end. One thing Papadopoulos does not want is to lose the presidency. So, he will set sail for the next best solution which he spelt out quite explicitly in Helsinki some time ago. It is a clean solution, the kind he has fought for all his life. It does not matter if half of Cyprus is lost for ever. We will retain our "greekness" and Papadopoulos the presidency, of course.

I think is up to Christofias now. There seems to exist two lines of thought in AKEL at the moment. The hardliners, who have entered into an unholy alliance with the nationalists and the social nationalists (represented by AKEL's mouthpiece "Haravgi" and those that uphold the traditional values of AKEL for rapproachment-solution based on a bizonal, bicommunal federation. The hardliners have turned the ideology of AKEL on its head. Its like Talat or Akinci collaborating with Ali Riza Yiorgun. It was revealed last week that Christofias even had secret talks with the leader of a marginal nationalist party in order to secure its votes for Papadopoulos.

The worrying thing is that the hardliners seem to be on top at the moment. Those with soothing voices seem to have gone into political hibernation. Where is Tsielepis, the constitution expert who gave a masterpiece exhibition on tv about the Anan plan, ten days before the referendum? He has not been seen or heard ever seen. Christou, the minister, has lost his voice and only talks about the affairs of his ministry. Kazamias, who had the cojoles to resign from the government has been appointed abroad and he does not speak any more. Astra, Akel's radio, has been silenced by the rejectionists, who are headed, by the way, by Nicos Katsourides the son of the infamous Katsouras, chief of Akel's KGB for decades.

[erolz]

I'm afraid that I do not wholly agree with you. You cannot tar all Cypriots with the same brush. The majority of ordinary Cypriots had no problems with each other. The actions of the few cannot be extrapolated to represent the many.

see here

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=865

[pantelis]

Bananiot,

UN Cyprus plan ‘can be revised’
ANKARA (AP) - Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan said on Christmas Eve that a rejected United Nations plan to reunite Cyprus could be revised, and called for new efforts to solve the dispute.

Erdogan said that although UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan’s plan — which was rejected by the Greek Cypriots and backed by the Turkish Cypriots in an April 24 referendum — was not currently on the table, it could be revised.

“Okay then, we revise the Annan plan again,” he said. “It can come before us again if both sides agree.” He also indicated a new referendum could be held.

“Both sides (can) revise it and agree on it, then submit it to the people for approval,” Erdogan said. “I think all of us should move hand in hand. I believe that speeding up the peace process will be very beneficial.”

[While compelled by the European Union to sign a customs treaty with Cyprus by October 3 — when Turkey’s accession talks are to start — Ankara has ruled out formally recognizing Nicosia before a peace deal is struck.]

Why does Erdogan want to revise the "plan"?

[insan]

Why does Erdogan want to revise the "plan"?

Because foxy GC leadership force them to think about the revision of the final A. Plan, although Turkish side have still been awaiting for the concrete improvement demands of GC side reagrding the Annan Plan.