Cyprus-Forum.com

[Pyrpolizer]

The worlds dependency on fossil fuels has created an enormously powerful international grid of self interests that basically stagnated energy related science for 60+ years, and killed any efforts for new related technologies, which do in fact exist.

Relevant Video at Google:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 4784769158

Nuclear FUSION which is the processs of joining nuclei together was always considered the future.It produces millions of times more energy than fission.Fission is the process of the atomic bombs (it brakes the nuclei) and contrary to fusion produces relatively low levels of energy, a hell of nuclear waste, and dangerous gamma and other rays. Furthermore it requires enriched radioactive materials. Fussion just uses Hydrogen isotopes already availble in water (one part in a thousand if I remember correctly) and produces only alpha rays which transform to helion within a distance of 1 meter… Helion already exists in the atmosphere and is totally harmless.
A Nuclear Fusion prototype reactor is now on its way in France under a 10 billion Euros International project called ITER.

Relevant link at BBC news:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4629239.stm

The balance of power may change ANY day soon.

NB. Downloaded Videos from Google are AVI format but dont play on windows as they have some small code inside. Solutions
a)download a converter from here:
http://www.free-codecs.com/Gvi2Avi_download.htm
(The converter needs about 10 minutes to convert a 650 MB Google video)
or b)download the Google Video player and drag and drop your Google video in there.

[cypezokyli]

if it is better for the environment and as efficient then all i can say its well done !

as for the balance of power....considering this :

The European Union, the United States, Russia, Japan, South Korea and China are partners in the project.

i guess the power of the big boys will simply increase even more, especially against the middle east oil producers (assuming this project really proves as good as focil fuels)... we ll see

[Piratis]

During ancient Rome an army needed months to even move from one country to another. The Roman and other ancient empires lasted for many many centuries. Things used to move very slowly then.

Today things have changed, and everything moves a lot faster. The balance of power will change at least once during our life time, but things can be a lot more unpredictable. It is even said that after a civilization reaches a certain level of technology it destroys itself. I hope we will not see that in our lifetime, but I am afraid there is a very big possibility of such thing happening in the not very distant future.

[miltiades]

Piratis , are you suggesting that we sit back and wait for the balance of power to change ? And do what when it does. Those who subscribe to a future scenario where a balance of power changes to their favour , are I'm afraid living in a fools paradise. The opportunity to reach a settlement is here with us now. Capitulation by one side will not occur. Complete acceptance by one side will not occur. A Cyprus made up of just the majority will also not occur not in your lifetime not in your grandchildren's also. The T/C are the only force that will dictate to Turkey the need to leave Cyprus. How will they do this. Only when a comprehensive solution satisfying them too will they feel able to request that Turkey departs. The powers of today , America and Britain support Turkey because IT SERVES THEIR INTERESTS. We have everything to gain by building bridges and , YES , making compromises for the sake of our future generations . It does not mean surrendering , it means accepting in our Churches , in our Schools , in our social lives that the T/C is just like us a Cypriot with full rights to live in Cyprus without hindrance, just as the G/C have. Don't even go down the road of throwing "traitor talk " at me ! I have numerous T/C friends , I got to know them and understand them. They are just as passionate about Cyprus as we are . I argue with many , we differ on interpretation of the "TRNC" which I call the occupied part of Cyprus. I understand our differences but also sense their willingness to find a peaceful solution.

[devil]

Let's be quite clear here. The OP is talking about power as energy and this is being deviated to political power. Yes, there is an inter-relation, but nothing is likely to change in my lifetime nor that of the majority of people in this forum able to understand what is going on.

The ITER project is a small scale prototype fusion experiment. It will never produce more energy than it consumes. If - and it is a big IF - it is successful, it will produce a sustained fusion reaction for the first time some time between 2040 and 2050. Well, let me tell you something. I lived in the Lausanne region between 1963 and 1998. One of the major research institutes for plasma physics (i.e., fusion) was in Lausanne at the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology. http://crppwww.epfl.ch/ I was closely involved with the Centre and knew well many of the scientists who worked there. I remember in about 1965 I asked when fusion could become a practical reality as an energy source. I was told in about 20 years. In the 1970s, I was told ~25 years. In the 1980s, ~30 years. Today, it is 40-50 years. IF ITER is a success, the first positive energy generators will take 15-20 years to build, so the very earliest that we can see this would be 2055, but 2070 would be a more realistic date.

If you wish to know my opinions, as a scientist, engineer and a professional environmentalist, about the equation of energy and the environment, they are expressed in http://www.cypenv.org/ (for Cyprus) and http://www.cypenv.org/worldenv/ (for the world). In particular, I have a credo at http://www.cypenv.org/worldenv/files/credo.htm and a forum to discuss any of these matters at http://www.cypenv.org/smf/index.php, where you can discuss the energy and environment matters while keeping extremist politics out of it.

[Pyrpolizer]

i guess the power of the big boys will simply increase even more, especially against the middle east oil producers

Thats right, but our discussion here is not about the balance of power between the superpowers but the balance of power between us and Turkey. We are discussing the Cyprus problem here remember?
It is more than obvious that the interests of the superpowers and the favoring of satelite States in the region will change dramatically if and when the importance of oil resources in the region simply vanish due to new cheap and infinite energy sources.

The ITER project is a small scale prototype fusion experiment. It will never produce more energy than it consumes.

My friend sorry but you are totally wrong.Fusion has already been achieved and there have already been at least 10 smaller reactors so far. The director of ITER is a Japanese professor who already has experimental results on his own design proving it can output millions
of times more energy compared to input (as every fusion reactor actually). It would be stupid to spend so much money for an experimental project if there was no such proof.
The ITER project is not to achieve fusion itself. It’s aim is to solve the technical problems arising from this application.The ITER project is guaranteed to produce some 500 MW, the problem is not how to produce them, but what the cost would be compared to other methods. And the cost of fussion is not relevant to power input, but relevant to expensive alloys, machinery, maintenance etc.

As our discussions here are about the Cyprus problem, what I would like to emphasise that the possibility of a major breakthrough in Energy production is real and may happen from one day to another. The ITER project was just an example, of what the medium term future holds.See the video for more details.

So those who think time is working in their favor, and maybe let’s stick to the current status quo until we get recognition in 20-30-50 years time, might as well start thinking of what might happen during this period.

[elko]

Let's be quite clear here. The OP is talking about power as energy and this is being deviated to political power. Yes, there is an inter-relation, but nothing is likely to change in my lifetime nor that of the majority of people in this forum able to understand what is going on.

The ITER project is a small scale prototype fusion experiment. It will never produce more energy than it consumes. If - and it is a big IF - it is successful, it will produce a sustained fusion reaction for the first time some time between 2040 and 2050. Well, let me tell you something. I lived in the Lausanne region between 1963 and 1998. One of the major research institutes for plasma physics (i.e., fusion) was in Lausanne at the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology. http://crppwww.epfl.ch/ I was closely involved with the Centre and knew well many of the scientists who worked there. I remember in about 1965 I asked when fusion could become a practical reality as an energy source. I was told in about 20 years. In the 1970s, I was told ~25 years. In the 1980s, ~30 years. Today, it is 40-50 years. IF ITER is a success, the first positive energy generators will take 15-20 years to build, so the very earliest that we can see this would be 2055, but 2070 would be a more realistic date.

If you wish to know my opinions, as a scientist, engineer and a professional environmentalist, about the equation of energy and the environment, they are expressed in http://www.cypenv.org/ (for Cyprus) and http://www.cypenv.org/worldenv/ (for the world). In particular, I have a credo at http://www.cypenv.org/worldenv/files/credo.htm and a forum to discuss any of these matters at http://www.cypenv.org/smf/index.php, where you can discuss the energy and environment matters while keeping extremist politics out of it.

I think Devil is right, fusion energy is far off. I remember the excitement 40 odd years ago when they were experimenting with the Zeta project. The hydrogen isotope with a proton and one or two neutrons have to be heated to about 20 million degrees Centigrade and also compressed to a certain density. If you look at the density versus temperature graphic, you can extrapolate the time required to reach the necessarry conditions. BTW, no container can withstand such a temperature, so the gas is contained in suspension within a very strong magnetic field. This is where the superconductors come into play. I don't think we will have fusion energy within our lifetime but it may come before the solution of the Cyprus problem
ismet

[devil]

My friend sorry but you are totally wrong.Fusion has already been achieved and there have already been at least 10 smaller reactors so far.

I never said that fusion has not been achieved, but the energy required to maintain fusion for very short periods has, by far, exceeded that which has been generated (and which has never been collected). The ITER project, above all, is an attempt to try and maintain fusion over periods of minutes and to try and extract the energy from the plasma. Only when this has been achieved and engineered can one envisage the possibility of building a real power station. The EROEI of ITER may actually approach unity, if all goes well but, as I said, not in our lifetime, unless you are very young.