Cyprus-Forum.com

[Bananiot]

Makarios's changes he proposed to the constitution were not simply there to be accepted or rejected. If they were so innocent he would not roam Cyprus and publically talk about the Turk, the proverbial enemy that needs to be exterminated in order for us to fullfill our vision of enosis with Greece. He would not have funded and created a private army led by the most reactionary people and butchers in Cyprus, that even held military excercises by his summer house in Troodos. He would not have funded and supported Akritas, an organisation that was created to anhilitate our partners in the creation of the young Republic of Cyprus. These were the signals he kept sending to the Turkish Cypriot community in the very early 60's while we cheered him on. Even Greece and Turkey tried in vain to put some sense into his brain but to no avail. We keep saying that Turkey was waiting in the wings for our mistakes to be committed so that she would move in. Yet, Inonu tried hard to pursuade Makarios to see reality. We had so many opportunities to make Cyprus a paradise for all its people. Yet we chose to walk the dangerous road to the stupid fullfilment of our outdated nationalist visions. Even today, after all the hardship, we applaude the people with the same mentality, that of the early 60's. More misery is surely installed for us and our children. In essence, we have the leaders we deserve. As long as they can sell cheaply their fairytails to people like Piratis and the majority of course of the Greek Cypriots, I can not be optimistic about the future. And this on Xmas day!

[miltiades]

The 1960 agreements were signed by all the participants for better or worse . The T/Cs were seen by the majority as an obstacle to the continuing dream of Enosis . The dream of Enosis was kept alive by the leadership of the time and provided the people with a powerful impetus for hatred to continue.
The culprits were the "motherland aficionados " and the victims were the Cypriots. Religious and nationalistic (Greek mainland ) fueled the people with inappropriate goals instead of proclaiming the Cypriot identity as the predominant one that mattered most.
Likewise the T/Cs were indoctrinated by the ideology of Taxim. The results of both fallacies are there for all Cypriots to see. Thousands murdered on both sides , thousands displaced and yet a time bomb of a Plan is constructed to re unite the island , this plan would have failed in no time with catastrophic consequences. Unless the real ethnicity of the Cypriots is promoted and elevated to the highest level no agreement will succeed in the long run.
Cypriots need the only common ground they share to be nurtured and heavily promoted.The cancerous tumour of "motherland " nonsense must be removed in order to give Cypriots a chance.

[Kifeas]

Although no one in his right senses (including the current president) denies the fact that the Greek Cypriot side committed mistakes and mishandled the various issues that came up during the early sixties, I cannot help not expressing my outrage to the fact that some Greek Cypriots like Bananiot, Lukas Charalampous, Nicos Rolandis and a few others have taken the downturn road of treason and joined their voices with the most anti-Greek Cypriot and most pro-Turkish twisted propaganda that has ever appeared in our times, and subscribe themselves fully to the Denktash’s and the kemalist deep-state’s thesis and preaching that want the Greek Cypriot side to be the sole perpetrator and instigator of all that has happened in Cyprus during the last 50 years.

So much is their moral degradation that they twist the facts and the realities to such an extent, so that they paint the Greek Cypriot side in the darkest of colors -alone and only, while they mention nothing and try to completely hide the equal and parallel mistakes of the other side, and those of Turkey and Britain, with the sole aim to vindicate the Turkish invasion, ethic cleansing and pursued partition of Cyprus, and in order to excuse and justify their treacherous support to the disguised pro-partition Annan plan, the plan that would have legitimised nearly all of the illegal and immoral fait accomplices of the illegal Turkish invasion.

Bananiot, you are lucky that you live among a society and a country that respects freedom of expression, no matter how much rubbish and treacherous whatever someone says does constitute. Just remember that if you were in Turkey, you would have by now been found dead in some ditch, or you would have been passed through a trial and a torturous imprisonment in some white cell, for insulting Turkishness.

[Bananiot]

You are dead right. People like me have been found dead in Turkey, Hitler's Germany, Argentina, Chile BUT also in CYPRUS, because of their political convictions. People like me will always pay the penalty in the hands of fascists like you who consider the truth to be propaganda of the enemy. Fascists and only fascists will reply to anything critical or outside of what convectional wisdom says, with "treacherous". This kind of approach has the landmark of fascism written all over it.

Since you think that we live in a text book democracy may I remind you of the fact that the "Economist" published some very interesting things this week regarding the level of democracy in different countries? Cyprus came 37th behind the likes of Botswana. Our democracy has been found wanting and unlike our way of thinking, the magazine says that it is not the number of laws you have that solidify democracy but how they are implemented. Most important, the report says, the acid test is the political culture that exists within a country. You Kifeas, along with our President are perfect example of people who have zero political culture.

[Kifeas]

You are dead right. People like me have been found dead in Turkey, Hitler's Germany, Argentina, Chile BUT also in CYPRUS, because of their political convictions. People like me will always pay the penalty in the hands of fascists like you who consider the truth to be propaganda of the enemy. Fascists and only fascists will reply to anything critical or outside of what convectional wisdom says, with "treacherous". This kind of approach has the landmark of fascism written all over it.

Since you think that we live in a text book democracy may I remind you of the fact that the "Economist" published some very interesting things this week regarding the level of democracy in different countries? Cyprus came 37th behind the likes of Botswana. Our democracy has been found wanting and unlike our way of thinking, the magazine says that it is not the number of laws you have that solidify democracy but how they are implemented. Most important, the report says, the acid test is the political culture that exists within a country. You Kifeas, along with our President are perfect example of people who have zero political culture.

Oh really? Then tell me one such person that has been found dead in Cyprus during the last 30 years? The Economist! You mean this Anglo-Saxon, Anglo-American, pro-Turkish toilet paper magazine? Well, I wouldn’t even use it for a toilet paper! The UN and the EU have their own ratings for democracy and freedom of expression, and Cyprus is in a very envious high position, even better in many aspects that your true motherland, the UK!

[Bananiot]

Many people like to blame everything on the Annan Plan and the Anglo Americans for our predicament. We subscribe, naturally, to the political culture that says that the "others" are always to blame (may be the 37th position is not bad after all).

Let us take a look at what was happening exactly four years ago, on December 22, 2002. The Turkish Cypriots took to the streets in the thousands. They were holding olive tree branches and held banners that read "Denktash resign", "solution now", "this country is ours", "damnation to fascism", "you will answer for your crimes", "out with Denktash, in with peace" and "you have no right to mess with our future".

What did we do in return. We stayed silent and Papadopoulos with Christofias schemed their way to power. We watched Christofias elevate the most rejectionist person in Cyprus to the Presidency and resurrect Yiorgadjism from the dead. We replied to the our brave and patriotic compatriots with an unprecidented barrage of nationalism. We humiliated our Turkish Cypriot partners, who were ready to take the huge step of unification, by accusing them that they were doing all that in order to enjoy the benefits of the European Union. We were asking the international community to help us overcome the intransigence of Denktash and come forward with a solution proposal. They believed us since we were always sending signals for solution (especially during the Vasiliou and Klerides terms). Yet, when Denktash finally went it became obvious that we did not want a solution, as we proclaimed for tens of years, of the like of BBF. The international comminity eventually realised that it had to do with a people of extemely low political culture that look to gain benefits in a devious way that simply cannot be allowed to happen within the EU. We have lost all our friends and worse, we lost our credibility in the hands of Papadopoulos. The Turkish Cypriots that were staking their lives in 2002 are beginning to realising in greater numbers that we simply do not want them.

Getting rid of Papadopoulos is the most profound task of the Greek Cypriot community, just as it was back in 2002 for the Turkish Cypriot community the need to get rid of Denktash. Should I feel lucky and previlaged for having the "luxury" to be able to say the above?

Get lost Kifeas!

[Kifeas]

Many people like to blame everything on the Annan Plan and the Anglo Americans for our predicament. We subscribe, naturally, to the political culture that says that the "others" are always to blame (may be the 37th position is not bad after all).

Let us take a look at what was happening exactly four years ago, on December 22, 2002. The Turkish Cypriots took to the streets in the thousands. They were holding olive tree branches and held banners that read "Denktash resign", "solution now", "this country is ours", "damnation to fascism", "you will answer for your crimes", "out with Denktash, in with peace" and "you have no right to mess with our future".

What did we do in return. We stayed silent and Papadopoulos with Christofias schemed their way to power. We watched Christofias elevate the most rejectionist person in Cyprus to the Presidency and resurrect Yiorgadjism from the dead. We replied to the our brave and patriotic compatriots with an unprecidented barrage of nationalism. We humiliated our Turkish Cypriot partners, who were ready to take the huge step of unification, by accusing them that they were doing all that in order to enjoy the benefits of the European Union. We were asking the international community to help us overcome the intransigence of Denktash and come forward with a solution proposal. They believed us since we were always sending signals for solution (especially during the Vasiliou and Klerides terms). Yet, when Denktash finally went it became obvious that we did not want a solution, as we proclaimed for tens of years, of the like of BBF. The international comminity eventually realised that it had to do with a people of extemely low political culture that look to gain benefits in a devious way that simply cannot be allowed to happen within the EU. We have lost all our friends and worse, we lost our credibility in the hands of Papadopoulos. The Turkish Cypriots that were staking their lives in 2002 are beginning to realising in greater numbers that we simply do not want them.

Getting rid of Papadopoulos is the most profound task of the Greek Cypriot community, just as it was back in 2002 for the Turkish Cypriot community the need to get rid of Denktash. Shouls I feel lucky for having the "luxury" to be able to say the above?

Get lost Kifeas!

Get lost your self Bananiot!

Fascists are people like you who show the outmost and most abusive disrespect towards the will of the people, both for whom they have democratically chosen as their president and for their decision to reject an illegal and illegitimate so-called peace plan, prepared by the Anglo-Americans in order to please Turkey, and legalize our ethnic cleansing and vindicate all the 1974 illegal fait accomplices of an act of aggression.

[Issy1956]

Kifeas,
You are utterly wrong in condemning anyone for their views. You and the whole of the GC comminity may disagree with people like bananiot but you should defend to the death his right to his views. That is the mark of a true democracy and attacking people like him does not bode well for Greek Cypriot democracy.
I would certainly agree with Bananiots discription of the mood of the TC's in 2004 and their opinion of Dentash at the time. It has since changed in that Dentash's popularity has improved and he sees himself as having been vindicated in his views that the two communities cannot possibly live together and that seeking a solution along the lines of a unified Cyprus is a mistake. The GC's No vote saved Dentash's reputation without a doubt.
What is undoubtly a worry for people like me who desire a unified Cyprus is how on earth are we ever going to get the GC people to agree to any future plan which in all likelyhood is going be an amended Annan plan.
I dont get any feeling as to what this current GC leadership wants other than the usual platiudes about a just and lasting solution based on the rule of law and human rigts which I read as going back to a pre 1974 situation with adsorption of the TC north into an unreformed ROC which isnt going to happen.

[mehmet]

You do know that we are going to get a trail of responses accusing the author of this report and you as well of being a traitor saying they (the Turks) were going to do it anyway and this article is a pathetic attempt to draw a link between the actions of the state and the hostilities that followed. The truth is too uncomfortable for Papadopoulos to seek to make anything of the evetns of 1963, he probably suffers from memory blindness.

I cannot help not expressing my outrage to the fact that some Greek Cypriots like Bananiot, Lukas Charalampous, Nicos Rolandis and a few others have taken the downturn road of treason

[Kifeas]

You do know that we are going to get a trail of responses accusing the author of this report and you as well of being a traitor saying they (the Turks) were going to do it anyway and this article is a pathetic attempt to draw a link between the actions of the state and the hostilities that followed. The truth is too uncomfortable for Papadopoulos to seek to make anything of the evetns of 1963, he probably suffers from memory blindness.

I cannot help not expressing my outrage to the fact that some Greek Cypriots like Bananiot, Lukas Charalampous, Nicos Rolandis and a few others have taken the downturn road of treason

Mehmet, each one talks about their own side and their own mistakes!

Before you speak, tell me one time you or anyone of the TCs in this forum or outside this forum -apart from a very few and very rare exceptions, that has ever admitted that your side or Turkey had done one single mistake or wrong doing. Until you do that, then better shut up, because your side had done a lot as well, and you are guilty at least as much as we are for whatever happened in this country.

And before you point your finger to me, know with whom you are dealing with first!