Cyprus-Forum.com

[Bananiot]

Well, Sotos, if this is only what you care about then you are basically saying that Cyprus is finished. If the superpowers of this world are against us, as you would like us to believe, then we do not stand a chance. We might as well jump into the sea. I do not blame you for this simplistic talk. Our lords (Christofias, papadopoulos, Lillikas) also do the same and the naive Greek Cypriots admire them and think that they are great leaders because they have the guts to tell them off straight in their face. Yet the damage, these apolitical creatures do to Cyprus is unprecidented.

[Sotos]

Naive are those that voted yes for the Annan plan like yourself. If you can't see that they are against us then you need to take off the blinkers! Blair even had his wife supporting the Orams. What more do you want to understand the truth? They are not even hiding their intentions and you can not see it! You must be blind!

[reportfromcyprus]

In that case, militiades, I look to the leaders for a good and constructive alternative. Where is it?

Liberation to Cyprus, all foreign troops out, a democratic constitution like in every other EU country. Is this bad for you?

Well, for your leaders in Britain and Turkey is not acceptable, because they want to control our island.

So don't tell us that a solution is not found because of our leaders. A solution is not found because those that have the power insist on controlling our island against our will and they do not accept a true independent country in Cyprus.

'My' leaders? You assume a lot. If that's what 'your' leaders want, then why don't they negotiate for it? Proactively, clearly, and show some leadership instead of continuously blaming everyone else? Why?

[BirKibrisli]

Birkibrisly, your last post was very well thought of and wise and I agree with it one hundred percent. You have managed to list all the reasons why I became a fervent supporter of the Annan Plan as the only option that could unite Cyprus and lead, in the prosperous years to come, to reconsilliation and a chance for a new start, with the horrible past forgotten and new generations of people that would debate changes (after a period of peacefull and productive co existence) and actually produce solid arguments that these changes are needed. No one would then reject them if they came from both communities. We missed the train my friend and now our options are limited even more.

What frustrates me,Bananiot, is that our options get even more limited each passing day. While we dream of outside help in the forum of EU pressure on Turkey,or plan to wait for the balance of power to change in the ROC's favour to wage a war of liberation,Partition becomes more and more entrenched. One day in not so distant future there will be no other viable option for Cyprus.Soon we will have as many "new Turkish Cypriots" in the North,as there are old Greek Cypriots in the South. I will let everyone imagine what will that do to the "balance of power" people seem to be have put all there hopes in...

[Bananiot]

Once again, you are spot on, my friend birkibrisly. Things are getting worse by the day. Waiting for the balance to change so that we can attack and liberate the north is rediculous for two reasons: First, the balance can only get worse since we dicided that the Angoamericans are our dire enemies and secondly and most important, I do not want to fight you in another war, even if it was a winning one. We are now wise enough to be able to solve our differences in a civilised way. Besides, another war will only lay the grounds for the next one, and so forth.

[miltiades]

Bananiot wrote:

"""First, the balance can only get worse since we dicided that the Angoamericans are our dire enemies and secondly and most important, I do not want to fight you in another war, even if it was a winning one. We are now wise enough to be able to solve our differences in a civilised way. Besides, another war will only lay the grounds for the next one, and so forth."""

Does any one have a critical point to make on above . I most certainly do not .Lets hope that in time all or most Cypriots will feel the same way , although i'm convinced that the vast majority of our people want nothing more to do with war and more war and killings.

[Natty]

I've just finished watching the video Pirates posted and I found it rather interesting...

I really don't understand why people kept mentioning before any inter communal fighting erupted between the two communities, this urgent need to protect the TC's. It's said as though the TC's were being rounded up and killed in a genocidal manner..I Mean at first the documentary talks about having to protect the TC's, but then, after it mentions the first wave of inter communal fighting, it stresses the peaceful coexistence that had existed between the two communities before, so then why did the TC's need to be protected before the fighting broke out? To me it doesn't make much sense.....it's actually interesting to note that the first case of inter communal fighting that occurred was actually provoked by the TMT (I think the fact that it even had to be provoked it quite telling actually...). I have some questions...

1) What was so wrong with GC's wanting enosis with Greece? And since when did that involve 'the extermination of the TC's? I have never read about any slogans from back in the day, calling for 'union with Greece and death to the Turks of Cyprus'...I also know that when a plan for the union of Cyprus with Greece was presented at the United Nations, minority rights for the TC's were guaranteed..If enosis was such a bad thing, than we wouldn't have Modern day Greece surely...When you look back at the history of modern Greece and you look at how it was formed, than to me the union of Cyprus with Greece looks pretty logical...Why should people be punished for wanting to join a country that they had helped become independent? (Please don't get me wrong...I don't support the independent idea, It just frustrates me that enosis has been given this sinister meaning....)..

2) What rite did the British have to be in Cyprus?

3) Was Turkey too involved in Cyprus, and should they really have had that much 'power'?

4) What was so wrong with the amendments proposed by Makarios? To me many seem quite logical....(but I could be wrong)...

5) I would also love to know more about how the finished 'Anan plan' came about? Was it really mainly written by America and England, etc...

Thanks, and peace!

Oh and have a great New Year (and I hope everyone had a very Merry Xmas! )xx

[reportfromcyprus]

I've just finished watching the video Pirates posted and I found it rather interesting...

I really don't understand why people kept mentioning before any inter communal fighting erupted between the two communities, this urgent need to protect the TC's. It's said as though the TC's were being rounded up and killed in a genocidal manner..I Mean at first the documentary talks about having to protect the TC's, but then, after it mentions the first wave of inter communal fighting, it stresses the peaceful coexistence that had existed between the two communities before, so then why did the TC's need to be protected before the fighting broke out? To me it doesn't make much sense.....it's actually interesting to note that the first case of inter communal fighting that occurred was actually provoked by the TMT (I think the fact that it even had to be provoked it quite telling actually...). I have some questions...

1) What was so wrong with GC's wanting enosis with Greece? And since when did that involve 'the extermination of the TC's? I have never read about any slogans from back in the day, calling for 'union with Greece and death to the Turks of Cyprus'...I also know that when a plan for the union of Cyprus with Greece was presented at the United Nations, minority rights for the TC's were guaranteed..If enosis was such a bad thing, than we wouldn't have Modern day Greece surely...When you look back at the history of modern Greece and you look at how it was formed, than to me the union of Cyprus with Greece looks pretty logical...Why should people be punished for wanting to join a country that they had helped become independent? (Please don't get me wrong...I don't support the independent idea, It just frustrates me that enosis has been given this sinister meaning....)..

2) What rite did the British have to be in Cyprus?

3) Was Turkey too involved in Cyprus, and should they really have had that much 'power'?

4) What was so wrong with the amendments proposed by Makarios? To me many seem quite logical....(but I could be wrong)...

5) I would also love to know more about how the finished 'Anan plan' came about? Was it really mainly written by America and England, etc...

Thanks, and peace!

Oh and have a great New Year (and I hope everyone had a very Merry Xmas! )xx

Every one of your disingenuous questions is a little minefield that can be answered in several different ways, depending on which side you support.

I'll have a shot at answering them from the perspective of a human being who tries to be at the very least, to acknowledge that bias is almost unavoidable, but that facts can help create perspective:

The Myceneans (from what is now the united Greek mainland) settled in Cyprus in 1400 BC. Before that, the settlers came from Rumelia, which is now Anatolia. The Rumelian settlers came over around 6500 BC and lived in Cyprus through the Neolithic period, when it was settled by people from the Levant.

1300-1200 BC the island was settled by Achaean Greeks, who brought their own culture, language and customs. Because of its geographic location, Cyprus was conquered by many nations, which is the way they did things before concepts of human rights and independence and democracy for all. It was conquered by the Egyptians, the Persians, the Romans, the Arabs, and in 1192, by King Richard of England.Cyprus was then sold to the Knights Templar, after which it was sold to the Venetian Empire. In 1571, Cyprus was conquered and taken from the Venetians by the Ottomans. The Ottoman Empire was defeated in World War I and Britain annexed Cyprus, which was by then was an ex-Ottoman asset, in the colonial / empire systems of the past. In 1952 it became a crown colony.

The Greek-Cypriots rebelled against this and went for Enosis with Greece under the leadership of Grivas, between 1955-59, and fought a guerilla war with the Brits. Instead of enosis, the warring parties eventually agreed on an independent republic in which the three great powers at the time (Britain, Turkey and Greece) were guarantors, one of the conditions was that there was never to be union with Greece or Turkey, but that the country would be independent.

Should turkey be involved with Cyprus and have that much power? It's impossible to give an unbiased answer to this - the answer will always be yes, if you're Turkish-Cypriot and no if you're Greek-Cypriot; and you may as well ask the same question of Greece and Britain. It's history - in the past, territory was conquered by force, that's how empires are powered.

Can't help you on your #4 question, have to research more thoroughly.

The Annan Plan was written by many different people belonging to the UN and Cyprus, including Greek and Turkish-Cypriots. It was the latest in a series of peace proposals by the UN and the latest to fail completely.

Facts are, that Cyprus has been a disputed island for centuries, with anyone within a spitting distance laying claim to it you can see where the timeline came from here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Cyprus

[Natty]

Thanks reportfromcyprus, much appreciated!

I've been a member of this forum for a long time now, yet I'm still so confused about many things...although I guess I'm not the only one...

BTW, When I said I didn't support 'the independent idea' I meant the 'the enosis idea'...Just to clear that up...

[miltiades]

Reportfrom Cyprus , your summing up is a little off the mark .


"""Facts are, that Cyprus has been a disputed island for centuries, with anyone within a spitting distance laying claim to it you can see where the timeline came from here:

What you should have ended with is this : Facts are Cyprus has been conquered by many foreign nations who denied the natives their right to their island. The Cypriots , G/Cs , T/Cs , Armenians and recently arrived British , Russian and other Eastern Europeans have a legitimate right to be equal citizens under the law. What they do not have a right to do is to pay allegiance to a nation that the vast majority of Cypriots , some 80% consider as an invading power. There has to be an acceptance of Universal norms and codes of behaviour.