Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

Even if it were forced on your "Archbishop" isn't this the norm you yourself quoted before when the EU were forced by Greece to take a divided island into the block? International politics this happens but even so you had the opportunity to work with TCs and build trust and a Cypriot people but what did you do? pursue your own hidden agenda to reduce the effectiveness of the TCs and annihilate them so that you can do what the "numerical majority" wanted turning Cyprus into Greece.

[Piratis]

Greece is a member of EU, and as member it has the rights of every other member.

On the other hand, why Britain and Turkey should decide about Cyprus instead of Cypriots?

The hidden agenta was the one of dividing Cyprus and ethnically cleansing Greek Cypriots from 1/3rd of their island.

[Viewpoint]

Guarantor rights? All 3 are guarantors and have a stake in setting up the new consitution. Cypriots are begging for external help UN EU.... today to solve their problems if you are so we should decide not others then why cant Cypriots sort them out now, today in 2006/7?

[cypezokyli]

cypezokyli, did you watch the video of BBC that I gave a link to?

There you will see that the British had been discussing with the Turks for partition since 1957. The British politicians of the time (British PM, Governor of Cyprus etc) say on video clearly that they wanted to "share' Cyprus between Greece and Turkey, and that their plan would be imposed unless the Greeks would agree to negotiate under their terms.

Watch at about 15:50 minute of the movie to see what I am talking about. They say that they were not going to "beg" them about their plan to partition Cyprus, they were just going to tell them. Thats how the British were functioning.

Sure they negotiated with Greece, but under what terms? Under blackmail. The British had the right to reject anything that they didn't like, and in the end they could just impose their own plan of partition. Greece on the other hand was blackmailed to accept all the British (and probably most of the Turkish) terms.

piratis i am unfortunately (for my internet access) currently in cyp , and it takes ages to download that video. in a couple of week i promise to watch it

the claim that most part of the deal was an agreement between greece and turkey (with england being primarily interested about the military bases and the treaty of alliance - which apparently greece and turkey decided to leave them out in the beggining !) , was made by :

dimitris mpitsios : krisimes ores
(he was a greek diplomat - representative of greece at the permanenent mission of the UN - who gave numerous battles for cyprus on the GA and the SC)
he was also present in dolder , where the greek-turkish negotiations took place , drawing the basis for a solution. he doesnot claim a significant british intervention on the negotiations. on the other hand he has no problem in accusing the british at other points of the book.

once again the basis of the agreements were an agreement between turkey and the country we wanted to unite with.

also here :
Evanthis Hatzivasileiou : Stratigikes tou kypriakou (1950-59)
Editions Patakis, 02/2005, ISBN 9601614419
(he is a epikouros (if i remember correctly ) prefesor at pantios )

[cypezokyli]

you can also add this book in the above :
terlexis pantazis (prof of sociology) : diplomatia kai politiki tou kypriakou , 2004

he also claims that makarios both knew and was not forced to sign the agreements

[growuptcs]

viewpoint

Guarantor rights? All 3 are guarantors and have a stake in setting up the new consitution. Cypriots are begging for external help UN EU.... today to solve their problems if you are so we should decide not others then why cant Cypriots sort them out now, today in 2006/7?

We cant sort it out on our own viewpoint because your aim is is to trade what you LEFT BEHIND to what we WERE FORCED TO LEAVE BEHIND, which amounts to an astronomical difference, that you call even. And after that you want equal status, in a segregated community. Problem is, is that you know it wont last 2 minutes on the negotiating table, but you insist on not changing your aim and then fingerpointing the GC's again to why it failed. You know what will happen, some TC will show goodwill and talk sh_t till they get to the negotiating table then before he sits down, he'll change back to his original colors and act like Dektash. Does Talat's game ring a bell?

[Rude Gal]

Talat came to power on a wave of euphoria of dumping the Old Guard and genuinely seeking a peaceful reconcilliation with South based on established UN parameters for a solution. His strategy has failed and as a politician, he must (& is) responding to changing viewpoint of North electorate (i.e known hardliner just elected leader of main Opposition party). There is (as must be expected) a backlash from TCs against any more concessions in name of peace/solution. What did you expect?

As for

We cant sort it out on our own viewpoint because your aim is is to trade what you LEFT BEHIND to what we WERE FORCED TO LEAVE BEHIND, which amounts to an astronomical difference, that you call even. And after that you want equal status

you forget to mention growuptcs that 50% of TCs were made homeless between 1963-74 AND we are politically equal according to Treaties & Constitution that set up the RoC. GCs smashed that! Or do you deny these facts?

Finally, it is not numerical size that generates political equality. If so, the tiny RoC would not have veto rights in the EU given huge difference in population to France, Germany, UK etc. So please, less bias, more truth and then we can have a proper debate...

[Kifeas]

you can also add this book in the above :
terlexis pantazis (prof of sociology) : diplomatia kai politiki tou kypriakou , 2004

he also claims that makarios both knew and was not forced to sign the agreements

Ask this certain Mr. Tarlexis if he thinks that Makarios had an option not to give the 18% of super-Cypriots the "right" to hold 30% of the government jobs and the parliament seats, and 40% of the police jobs and a right to veto every one single decision of the government and the legislature, but he missed the opportunity to do so because he regarded the 80% of the rest of Cypiots (the Greek Cypriots) to be naturally an inferior human stock!

Ask him if he thinks that Makarios had a choice not to sign the agreements, and thus negotiate a different (a more balanced) agreement, but he declined to do so.

Ask Mr. Tarlexis if he also thinks that Makarios was a mentally retarded person, or a psycho.

[humanist]

Rude Gal .... i think you need to remove your signature .... i have watched your posts and are hypocritical to your talk. We know the historical facts that lead to today ..... if you are going to go about the past then Peace Love and Harmony will never arrive in Cyprus.

Practice what you preach pls.

[Rude Gal]

Rude Gal .... i think you need to remove your signature .... i have watched your posts and are hypocritical to your talk. We know the historical facts that lead to today ..... if you are going to go about the past then Peace Love and Harmony will never arrive in Cyprus.

Practice what you preach pls.

As far as I know, I do practice what I preach. Perhaps you would be kind enough to offer some concrete examples so I can see where you are coming from?

And how can reference to past be counter to Peace Love & Harmony? Surely we need to address our past head on so we can learn from past mistakes and ensure future is full of Peace Love & Harmony? Or do you prefer we sweep the past under the carpet?