Cyprus-Forum.com

[stuballstu]

Excuse for what stuballstu? The truth is the truth. Even the TCs blame the "big powers". Is it because the Cypriots are a world "phenomenon" or is it because it is the truth? I don't deny the Cypriots are also responsible but the fact is even if the Cypriots do 100% the right thing the Cyprob would still stagnate as it stagnated in 1972 when everything was agreed because of Greeces involvement as it stagnates for 32 years+ because of Turkeys involvment.

Pyrpolizer

No offence intended or indeed implied. I was not meaning what i said soley at GC's either hence the word "Cypriots" which is what TC's and GC's are. What I am saying is that in Cyprus there is a "blame culture" there is no doubt on this. At what point is a leader of Cypriots going to take the bull by the horns and stand up and say "This has been going on too long lets get this sorted". When i mean sorted i mean through diplomacy. I am very critical of the current ROC administration and do not hide that fact. They give the impression to lots of Cypriots that everyone is anti-Greek Cypriot with the exception of Greece. All that is said is the UN plan is unfair (its their fault) a growing anti American feeling they have some blame as do the UK. You will never hear a government official publicly state that their own quest for Enosis is also partly responsible for the Turkish troops coming to Cyprus. They do blame others for not solving the problem and muddy these waters to ordinary GC's. As a GC ask yourself what have the ROC administration done to try and solve the Cyprob and is there anything more they can do? Please bare in mind that they are the "official" Cypriot government.

[stuballstu]

Stubalistu, do you think it is a coincidence that you are a car dealer? Did you think that in your "online life" you could be more successful than your real one?

I never say "nonsense" and "bollocks". When I say something about a historical event it is a fact. I don't know if you have a wild imagination, or the Turkish propaganda is feeding you with the crap you say, but in this forum you are doing nothing more than spreading lies.

We discussed several times this issue, and fortunately (unfortunately for you), bellow you can find that part of history as described by your own BBC. Not that we expect BBC to tell us about the truth and our own history, but apparently for you everything that Greek Cypriots say is "bollocks" and "nonsense" and you accept only what the British and the Turks say (and we know very well why).

So here is the video:
http://rapidshare.com/files/8438709/cyt2.wmv.html
If you want to go directly to the point of our argument start the video from 9 minute and 15 second and watch until the end.

You can also listen on how since 1957 Britain and Turkey were planning about partitioning Cyprus, and how soon after (as a "coincidence") violence broke out between GCs and TCs.

You can deny it as much as you want and you can keep lying to yourself and to others but the facts are clear: The interests of UK/USA and Turkey was for the division of Cyprus and this is how they planed everything to be. What Cypriots can be blamed is that they didn't realize the whole game that was played against us early enough.

But even when we did, we were still not able to stop what was planned.
Makarios knew long before 1974 that Turkey was looking for an excuse to invade, and he did everything he could to stop the coup from happening. However the Americans on one hand were encouraging the Greek Generals of Junta to overthrown the "Red Monk" of the "Mediterranean Cuba" and at the same time they were giving the Green light for Turkey to invade.

These are the facts dear ignorant car dealer. We know that your interests are with the occupation regime and that you had a Turkish propaganda crash course, but this doesn't mean you have any clue about Cyprus history.

So go get a clue, and then come back.

Thanks for all your kind words Piratis, Merry Christmas to you and have a prosperous 2007. At this rate the Cyprus problem will still be going on in 2037 will be having the same debate then.


Piratis

Now your posts are getting personal and personally directed at me. This can be compared to how a child reacts when it does not get its own way. Please stop the attention seeking as it adds nothing to the debate and to be quite frank is boring. You as a moderator should know forum rules yet quite clearly and blatantly breach them tut tut tut.

Stubalistu, do you think it is a coincidence that you are a car dealer? Did you think that in your "online life" you could be more successful than your real one?

Car dealer?? what has my occupation got to do with the thread or Cyprus problem. I am not a car dealer. What is the relevance? I only have one life Piratis and it is just fine and dandy thanks with the exception of not being in the Caribbean at this time of year as normal. But if thats my only complaint then I'm doing well.

I never say "nonsense" and "bollocks". When I say something about a historical event it is a fact. I don't know if you have a wild imagination, or the Turkish propaganda is feeding you with the crap you say, but in this forum you are doing nothing more than spreading lies.

No you just use the word "Crap". Just because you disagree with me and other forum users doesn't mean we are spreading lies.

We discussed several times this issue, and fortunately (unfortunately for you), bellow you can find that part of history as described by your own BBC. Not that we expect BBC to tell us about the truth and our own history, but apparently for you everything that Greek Cypriots say is "bollocks" and "nonsense" and you accept only what the British and the Turks say (and we know very well why).

Where the BBC the only news agency to report that GC's TC's British greeks and Turks negotiated the Cyprus constitution? My point is that Makarious accepted a constitution with the intention of changing it. A bit naughty that. Tell me why you think i only accept what the British and Turks say? It would be appreciated if you could be mature enough not to insult me with your reply.

These are the facts dear ignorant car dealer. We know that your interests are with the occupation regime and that you had a Turkish propaganda crash course, but this doesn't mean you have any clue about Cyprus history.

So go get a clue, and then come back

.

Yawn yawn. Your sounding boring and predictable now. If you can't reply civilly is there really a point in replying? Your right I have been visiting Cyprus since the 80's, studied Cyprus history as part of a thesis as part of my education, have owned property here for a number of years, have invested money in Cyprus and now spend the majority of my time in Cyprus.

I concede to you, I do know nothing about Cyprus, its history and Cypriots how foolish of me!

[Sotos]

That movie was shocking! I knew most things but It is shocking every time we hear about what happened then! The most shocking is when Alan-Lennox Boyd said about partitioning Cyprus from 1957! The British blackmailed Greece that they will impose partition within 2 months if Greece didn't accept their terms! And stuballstu even BBS admits that they brought Makarios in just to sign the agreements. They didn't negotiate with him. When he asked for some amendments and they didn't allow even that! So I think you own some apologies for trying to misinform people in the forum.

[Svetlana]

This is the season of Goodwill, so I will not bother to delete some of them posts which contain remarks about other Forum members - but please STOP. Stick to the topic!

Lana

[Piratis]

Yawn yawn. Your sounding boring and predictable now. If you can't reply civilly is there really a point in replying? Your right I have been visiting Cyprus since the 80's, studied Cyprus history as part of a thesis as part of my education, have owned property here for a number of years, have invested money in Cyprus and now spend the majority of my time in Cyprus.

If that makes you an expert, then all our 12 year old school children are experts as well.

You insisted that Makarios negotiated along with UK, Greece and Turkey the 1960 agreements while I kept telling you (not just in this thread) that in fact the 1960 agreements were forced upon us with no alternative given. You said that the facts I gave you were "nonsense" and "bollocks".

So sorry, but when somebody with so little knowledge on the issue like you, comes to dispute the undisputed facts I post, calling them "nonsense", is not very easy for me to react in a very polite manner.

[reportfromcyprus]

I think people should think carefully when discussing the conditions under which the 1960 constitution was accepted since it's the basis of the republic of cyprus.

[Sotos]

British made them and forced them on Cypriots. Why can't we say the truth about this RFC?

[reportfromcyprus]

There are truths, and there are facts.

What I'm saying is that if you question the basis of the consitution that shapes the government and laws of this country, then you question its validity, no?

It's like an Iraqi saying they don't accept the laws in Iraq because their new constitution was forced on them by the usa. At least what we have here is a functioning country that has some structure to it and not total chaos like in so many other countries.

What's the alternative? Nobody's come up with any stunningly enlightened and visionary solutions that made a difference so far.

[cypezokyli]

British made them and forced them on Cypriots. Why can't we say the truth about this RFC?

actually it seems that this is to a huge extent another myth.
the basis of the constitution was negotiations between greece and turkey, for which makarios for most part of them was informed (remember he was in athens for most part of the time the negotiations were taking place).

the question is, didnt our mama (wth whchich btw we wanted to united) have the right to nagotiate for us ?

why did makarios blamed everything on karamanlis in the end ?

ofcource the british played their part, but as always it suits us to overexaggurate that...

[Piratis]

cypezokyli, did you watch the video of BBC that I gave a link to?

There you will see that the British had been discussing with the Turks for partition since 1957. The British politicians of the time (British PM, Governor of Cyprus etc) say on video clearly that they wanted to "share' Cyprus between Greece and Turkey, and that their plan would be imposed unless the Greeks would agree to negotiate under their terms.

Watch at about 15:50 minute of the movie to see what I am talking about. They say that they were not going to "beg" them about their plan to partition Cyprus, they were just going to tell them. Thats how the British were functioning.

Sure they negotiated with Greece, but under what terms? Under blackmail. The British had the right to reject anything that they didn't like, and in the end they could just impose their own plan of partition. Greece on the other hand was blackmailed to accept all the British (and probably most of the Turkish) terms.