Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

On 24th of April; in the afternoon around 3 o'clock, a RoC spokesman made a statement and said that the referandum results of South would be made public after the referandum results of North has been made public.

The results were well known from exit polls right after voting was over.
(actually the result was known long time before the referendum from the multiple surveys that all showed the same result)


About Annan 3:
What is siad is that we will begin with Annan 3 as the base, and not that Annan 3 can be accepted as it is.

[erolz]

Whatever makes the Annan V the legitimate plan, makes all the other versions, also legitimate. If the four versions are void, then the fifth one is also void.

The drafting of the Annan plan is a process. The rules of this process were _agreed_ beforehand. It is just ridiculous to say if Anna 5 is legitimate then 1-4 are also. In the UK legisaltion is darted and then it goes to the house of commons for '1st reading' and '2nd reading', ammendment are proposed and voted on, then a similar process happens in the house of Lords and eventually the bill becomes law. What becomes law is the _final_ version of the legislation - not any of the previous versions. If you try to defend yourself in court ont the basis of the original legisaltion dratf and not the final draft that was passed, you would be laughed out of court.

If the TCs need to have Turkey's permission in order to "breath with their own lungs", then the negotiations should be between the RoC and Turkey directly.

I am simply being realistic. The TC could ignore Turkey, if they were to accept GC maximal demands. However we reject your maximal demands because they are in our view unjust. If Turkey were to insist that we accept your maximal demands we would reject that too. The fact is Turkey continues to support the TC in their quest for a just settlement in Cyprus. It is not about 'permission' from Turkey, it's about accepting and realising that the issue is 'bigger' than just ourselves - it has impacts for Turkey the EU and the rest of the world (something GC would be well advised to accept and realise). We (well me at least) do not share the GC arrogance that they can persue their maximal demands without any regard for the impact on others.

It is time for the TCs, yourself included, to stop hiding behind your little fingers. Sit back and let Turkey deal your future.

I (and we) are not hiding behind anyone. We owe our existance to Turkey, as a community with rights to control their own destiny in their own homeland and quite possibly as individuals who are still alive! The problem is not who you deal with - the problem is that you are still persuing maximal demands that have never been acceptable to TC, Turkey the EU or the rest of the world since the very inception of an independent Cyprus. Deal with us, deal with Turkey, deal with the UN - the result is the same - give the GC what they want or we will say no.

It is not fair having to deal with paid peons, who are scared to lose their inflated salaries.

You have no 'paid peons' on your side scared to lose their inflated salaries?

I am a firm believer that, had the GCs voted "yes" for the Annan plan, either the "vote keepers" in the north would have shown a "NO" result for the TCs,

We (although not I) voted yes you voted no. You do not like the pressure that has caused the GC or the realisation it has created internationaly that it is GC intransigence that is continuing the Cyprus problem. So you simply say 'well your yes was not a real yes because you do not have real democracy and the powers that be simply make up the results'. Believe what you like if you want to live in a world of self deception. Don't expect such a 'world view' to help you achieve a settlement in Cyprus though.

The "Annan Game" Sequel is over my friend. Turkey needs to deal with the RoC directly, this time, not thru the proxies at the UN and their bosses in London and Washington, but directly.

There really is no one you will not attack if they do not support giving you everything you want, is there?

[insan]

I agree with all the opinions you mentioned in your above post, erolz...

[magikthrill]

I think the "vote keepers" of South did what you've said above. On 24th of April; in the afternoon around 3 o'clock, a RoC spokesman made a statement and said that the referandum results of South would be made public after the referandum results of North has been made public. We well know whose intention in dream of "European Solution", was to gain time until the RoC has officialy become an EU member. It is Hellen's ruling elites intention to cause creation of plan 6, 7, 8 etc until Turkish side has accepted what they want: "A Hellen dominated Cyprus."

Of course Cyprus is Hellen dominated. That is if by Hellen you are referring to the culture and lifestyle and not the Hellenic Republic. The GCs are the indigenous people of the island and constitute 80% of the population. It's common sense.

If you are referring though to the Hellenic Republic, then you are wrong. Although Greece and Cyprus might have common goals in foreing policy (along with many other European coutnries) I can almost say with certainty that the Hellenic Republic* has NEVER interefered in domsetic Cyprus matters. Which is more than anyone can say about Turkey and the pseudostate.

*Mind you the Hellenic Republic and not any former Kingdom of Greece.

[magikthrill]

I think the "vote keepers" of South did what you've said above. On 24th of April; in the afternoon around 3 o'clock, a RoC spokesman made a statement and said that the referandum results of South would be made public after the referandum results of North has been made public. We well know whose intention in dream of "European Solution", was to gain time until the RoC has officialy become an EU member. It is Hellen's ruling elites intention to cause creation of plan 6, 7, 8 etc until Turkish side has accepted what they want: "A Hellen dominated Cyprus."

Of course Cyprus is Hellen dominated. That is if by Hellen you are referring to the culture and lifestyle and not the Hellenic Republic. The GCs are the indigenous people of the island and constitute 80% of the population. It's common sense.

If you are referring though to the Hellenic Republic, then you are wrong. Although Greece and Cyprus might have common goals in foreing policy (along with many other European coutnries) I can almost say with certainty that the Hellenic Republic* has NEVER interefered in domsetic Cyprus matters. Which is more than anyone can say about Turkey and the pseudostate.

*Mind you the Hellenic Republic and not any former Kingdom of Greece.

[mehmet]

Magicthrill,

keep reading about the history of Cyprus. Then talk to your parents and then come back when you realise the role of Greece in Cyprus's history.

[brother]

Being 80% of the population does not give them the right to force their hellenic faith etc. down our throats, you respect us and we will respect you.

[pantelis]

Believe what you like if you want to live in a world of self deception. Don't expect such a 'world view' to help you achieve a settlement in Cyprus though.

Erol,
What you said above, applies perfectly to your positions.

What you want, is to enjoy all advantages that come with a united Cyprus, member of the EU and at the same time enjoy all advantages and rights of a separate Turkish state in the north. You cannot have it both ways, nobody can. You have to give, before you receive.
What make the GC positions maximalistic, in your opinion? Please list some examples, instead of speaking in generalities.

The position of depriving tens of thousands of people of their homes for 30+ years, keeping an entire city hostage and empty, is what I call maximalistic and inhuman. What is the purpose of the TCs' occupation of the city of Famagusta? How do you serve your cause with such actions?
Please tell me Insan. Is it hellenization to ask for what is rightfully yours?

[Bananiot]

Mehmet Ali Talat rejected today the call for Annan 3 to be put back on the table. That is quite understandable and I believe the bright brain that thought of asking for annan 3 to be put on the table, thinks that he is the only clever guy on this planet. Asking for an old version to be the basis of new negotiations is tandamount to sinking the efforts before they even start. Papadopoulos is trying to prevent any negotiations until after October 3 when he rather naively thinks Turkey will recognise the RoC. In the meantime, Erdogan has the initiative and once again Papadopoulos will appear as the intransigent part and of course, another chance for a solution will by pass us.

In the Financial Times, yesterday, there is a story of how Chirac told off (he probably swore at) Papadopoulos who boasted that he has another 62 chances to veto the accession of Turkey. I have said this before, as long as Papadopoulos is in charge, there is no solution. Again, many will jump on my back and call me all sorts of names. I do not give a damn. I am a fervent supporter of what the National Poet of Greece, Dionysios Solomos, said some 150 years or so ago. "What is true, is for the national interest" he said. We live in a country where the truth struggles every day to surface.

[erolz]

What you want, is to enjoy all advantages that come with a united Cyprus, member of the EU and at the same time enjoy all advantages and rights of a separate Turkish state in the north.

What I want is for TC to be free of having to live at the whim and will of a people who display and have displayed historicaly nothing but contempt and hostility towards TC. Pre 1960 the TC community was supposed to bow to the will of GC in Cyprus for enosis. Post 1960 we were supposed to bow to the will of GC to have our legal rights taken from us. Post 1974 after years of suffering and blood we were supposed to bow to the will of GC to give back everyhting lost by GC (and lost because of GC hostility to TC). Now we are supposed to bow to GC will and accept any plan they deem is fair for us. What I want is to be free of this GC mania for total control of the island and the pain and suffring it has caused and causes TC. I would consider a solution based on partnership, mutual respect, and a degree of political equality - but such a solution is only possible if both sides are willing to tango. If not then I will accept division of the Island in order to be free once and for all of the GC desire to dictate alone and not in partnership the fate of the homeland of TC and the fate of TC themselves.

I care little of being in the EU or not. I care about a untied cyprus but will accpet a divided one if unity is not possible. I care most about being free of GC domination.

You cannot have it both ways, nobody can. You have to give, before you receive.

And GC are giving what? A continued instance that TC are no more than a political minority in their own homeland? That any rights we are 'given' by GC as a community above those of minorites are not in fact rights, but just generous gifts from GC that we have no rights to, and do not even deserve.

What make the GC positions maximalistic, in your opinion? Please list some examples, instead of speaking in generalities.

Just look at these boards. Just look at Papadopolus and the list of 'demands' he had prior to the EU summit (full recognition of RoC as sole legitimate goverment of ALL of cyprus, removal of ALL settlers, removal of ALL Turkish troops etc etc). The core of your maximal demand is the same it has always been. You will not accept any RIGHT of the TC community to any status of equality. You will only deal with us not as 'partner communites' but on the baisis of a dominant community and a political minority who can have some special protections as 'gifts' from the benevolent GC (the benevolent GC that killed each other and TC ans britsh solider and civilans in the past to acheive thier political aims). You tried to achieve these maximal aims by guile (agreeing 1960 consitituion on the basis you would remove those bits you did not like later), by force (laucnged in 63 and persued until 74) as laid out in the Akritas plan. By political manouverings post 74 and espesially today. The means change with circumstnce but the ends are the same.