Cyprus-Forum.com

[miltiades]

For all those Cypriots who share a common dream of a united Cyprus with a government representing all Cypriots and a head of government either T/C .G/C or perhaps an Armenian or indeed any other Cypriot whatever the ethnicity , it would be anathema to accept that a separate state exists governed by appointees of a foreign power. Our T/C brothers must be made to feel that this land belongs to them too , and not just 18% of Cyprus but 100% .

[elko]

For all those Cypriots who share a common dream of a united Cyprus with a government representing all Cypriots and a head of government either T/C .G/C or perhaps an Armenian or indeed any other Cypriot whatever the ethnicity , it would be anathema to accept that a separate state exists governed by appointees of a foreign power. Our T/C brothers must be made to feel that this land belongs to them too , and not just 18% of Cyprus but 100% .

All this is very good and this is exactly what I want in my heart but I am not convinced that this is the majority wish of Greek Cypriots, indeed I am convinced that the majority does not approve this. The majority consider Cyprus as a "Helen" or "Greek" island and the TCs are just a nuisance to be tolerated or kicked out.
The way forward is to start with real Confidence Building Measures, step by step, at every step it should be a win-win situation. For example, we open up Famagusta and Ercan to international traffic and in return you get Varosha unconditionally. I am willing to support this and campaign for it. This is a win-win situation. Next we do something else.
At the moment Papadop is trying to harm TRNC as much as he can and we fight back with all means. I can come up with lots of ideas, step by step to benefit both sides and regain confidence. We need deeds rather than words, that is the difficult bit.
ismet
i

[Pyrpolizer]

What you wrote, is a concern, if we are to avoid partition. However, by having the "noose" so tight around the TC's neck, is not going to help, to agree on a solution either. If your concerns are, about tourist flooding the North to visit or buy property, then it will also take them 10 minutes from Larnaca to cross over, just as it would take "mrfromng". You see what I'm saying. You don't have that mass movement of British or other Nationals going to the North from Larnaca, and there are probably not even a "small mass" of foreigners going from Turkey to Ercan.

As far as having flights for £10 pounds to fly from London to Ercan direct, I'm willing to wager a small bet, half the passengers on the plane will be GC's. I'm not so sure about my good friend Miltiades being on those flights, but many others might.

What you said Kikapu is true, in fact we do have a lot of people coming to Larnaca and going straight to the northern part to either a)buy property b)for tourism c)for spending a weekend at the Cazinos.
The fear of RoC is that by allowing direct flights it is giving recognition but ALSO loses control.

The TCs dont really want the direct flights per se, what they want is chartered flights. This means a whole plane packed with tourists at the lowset possible fee.So chartered flights can be subsidiced so heavily (by Turkey) for the whole purpose of flooding the area with tourists, either for cheap holidays or to promote their case and or to promote sale of GC land. From the RoC point of view this would cement partition as well as destroy the GC tourism which is based totally on rich tourists. (At this point you can ask yourself why Turkey is not subsidising chartered flights of tourists to the coccupied through her own airports)

My personal view is as above. If I am wrong then I need really convincing reasons from my TC friends living in Cyprus explaining me why on earth the direct flights are so important for them, given the fact that they can have as many direct flights as they wish at Larnaca Airport.

NB. You will lose your bet, half will not be GCs because chartered flight tickets are sold as packages together with hotel accomodation. You cannot buy the Air ticket separately.

[humanist]

Our T/C brothers must be made to feel that this land belongs to them too , and not just 18% of Cyprus but 100% .

Miltiadis I do agree with you ...... @ the same time I hear what others may feel on this matter. I personally feel though that the Cyprus situation will not be solved in my life time and am 38 -years.

However, I have problem with the word must. Perhaps it would be nice if our TSC compatriots are would feel that 100% of the land belongs to them also. To this end it is the responsibility of GSC's to take first step to ensure this.

[Kifeas]

The way forward is to start with real Confidence Building Measures, step by step, at every step it should be a win-win situation. For example, we open up Famagusta and Ercan to international traffic and in return you get Varosha unconditionally. I am willing to support this and campaign for it. This is a win-win situation. Next we do something else.
At the moment Papadop is trying to harm TRNC as much as he can and we fight back with all means. I can come up with lots of ideas, step by step to benefit both sides and regain confidence. We need deeds rather than words, that is the difficult bit.
ismet
i

Elko, in fact this was Papadopoulos proposal regarding Famagusta harbour and Varosha. The fact that reconstruction of Varosha is a 5 billion pounds project in a 5 year term, it means that as much as 2 billion pounds would potentially have been injected into the TC community's economy (jobs, construction bits, furniture and fittings supplies, revenues from the use of the Famagusta harbour for this purpose, etc.) This economic boosting -which alone would potentially constitute a further upgrading of the TC economy by 25-30% for the next 5 years, would have also brought the two communities closer together in cooperating and would facilitated further the climate and the prospects of re-unification. Instead of Talat negotiating the terms and benefits to his community's economy from the reconstruction of Varosha, he rejected the proposal because Tymbou airport for direct flights was not included.

Tymbou airport cannot be accepted by the GC side, because, unlike the Famagusta port, the operation of an airport for direct international flights requires also the use of a FIR, and FIR's can only be controlled by recognised sovereign states. The RoC cannot possibly score an own-goal by accepting that the north occupied area of the RoC has its own FIR, besides and outside RoC's FIR, and therefore it constitutes a legal entity in international law under the title of "TRNC." It is obvious that Talat and Turkey do not care so much about the economic status of the TC community, as much as they care about scoring political goals against the GC side. The so-called economic isolation of the TC community (its GDP nearly doubled since they opened the roadblocks 3 years ago –a world record,) is only a smokescreen behind which they aim at scoring political goals towards the upgrading of the status of the “TRNC.”

[stuballstu]

Kifeas wrote

Elko, in fact this was Papadopoulos proposal regarding Famagusta harbour and Varosha. The fact that reconstruction of Varosha is a 5 billion pounds project in a 5 year term, it means that as much as 2 billion pounds would potentially have been injected into the TC community's economy (jobs, construction bits, furniture and fittings supplies, revenues from the use of the Famagusta harbour for this purpose, etc.) This economic boosting -which alone would potentially constitute a further upgrading of the TC economy by 25-30% for the next 5 years, would have also brought the two communities closer together in cooperating and would facilitated further the climate and the prospects of re-unification. Instead of Talat negotiating the terms and benefits to his community's economy from the reconstruction of Varosha, he rejected the proposal because Tymbou airport for direct flights was not included

Kifeas

There is a lot of sense on what you have wrote. I think you'll find that Elko also agrees that Varosha should be returned to its owners. I dont think that there is much objection to this amoungst the TC community. I have to admit it would be an incredible olive branch if Turkey gave Varosha back as well as the economical benefits for all.

There is a couple of stumbling blocks though. One is that only Famagusta was to opened to direct trade, under EU control, for a limited time I think from memory it was 3 years ( I may be wrong in the timescale). Whereas Varosha was to be returned unconditionally. If Famagusta could be opened under EU control why couldn't Ercan/Tymbou be likewise? although neither of these things should be timerestricted. One further point is that as a member of the EU the ROC would have effective control over the airport although as you point out this may be a legal requirement. It would be very difficult for TC's to accept this at the moment. Would it not be better perhaps if the EU's rotating presidency also overseen control of the airports and sea ports to make sure that they comply with international aviation and customs law? Just a thought to try and make the situation a win, win for everyone.

It is obvious that Talat and Turkey do not care so much about the economic status of the TC community, as much as they care about scoring political goals against the GC side. The so-called economic isolation of the TC community (its GDP nearly doubled since they opened the roadblocks 3 years ago –a world record,) is only a smokescreen behind which they aim at scoring political goals towards the upgrading of the status of the “TRNC.”

Sorry Kifeas you are wrong with this one. It was Denktash who wanted and independent TRNC. Talat was elected by telling the TC electorate that he wanted a bi communal federation in a united Cyprus. That does not make him a partitionist. If the ROC is so keen to unify Cyprus why doesn't Papadopolous invite Talat to take up his role as ROC vice president? There is a case to answer why he won't do that. Like most Cypriot politicians they don't want to relinquish any of the power which fuels their own inflated egos.

[Kikapu]

[NB. You will lose your bet, half will not be GCs because chartered flight tickets are sold as packages together with hotel accomodation. You cannot buy the Air ticket separately.

On charter flight proposals, you're right, I'll lose my bet. I was talking about schedule flights.

As far as TC's only wanting direct flight, so that "TRNC" becomes more recognized in the eyes of the International community, I would say, it will be one of the reasons, so, I agree with you. This is also true for the RoC wanting access to Turkey's ports, because it too wants to be recognized by Turkey.

[Kikapu]

Tymbou airport cannot be accepted by the GC side, because, unlike the Famagusta port, the operation of an airport for direct international flights requires also the use of a FIR, and FIR's can only be controlled by recognised sovereign states. .”

Kifeas,

The RoC can have control of all the International flights going to Ercan, lets call it "Nicosia Approach", then hand the flight over to Ercan Control Tower. Ercan to Nicosia can't be more than the the distance a plane spends being on the "Final Approach".

As for Customs & Immigration clearance, this can be done at the point of Departure, by the hosting country. For example, all flight going to USA from Canada, clear Immigration and Customs in Canada, by US authorities, so upon landing in any USA city, you just pick up your bags and walk out. In essence, it becomes a "Domestic Flight".

The landing fees then can be discussed with the RoC, to pay for the cost of "out sourcing" the Customs and Immigration" to the countries, in which the flight takes of from, since there won't be one needed at Ercan. Of course some of the funds would be needed to run the airport.

The other idea of course, would be to re-open Nicosia International Airport. By doing this, all flights would be handled by the RoC. All you need to have at the airport, are "Two Halves". This is how it works at the Basle/ European Airport in Switzerland/ France, which I do most of my flights these days.

The whole airport sits on French territory, on the border with Switzerland. There is a 2-3 mile fenced road that goes to the airport from Basle, which is a Swiss city. We go through Swiss check-in for the flight, and security and Passport control. The French do the same on their half of the air Terminal. It is one Terminal, with a glass barrier, separating both sides.

Once past the security from each side, all the passengers are now in the same terminal, for "Duty Frees" and the the gates to catch their flights.

Upon arrival, once you collect your bags, you go out at separate Immigration and Customs, then walk out to each others respected sides.

If this was to happen in Nicosia, I would even suggest to have a joint team of TC's and GC's to handle Customs and Immigration, working together. A step by step integration might help solving our long term problems, since nothing can be achieved all at once, it seems.

[RAFAELLA]

The British government is currently assessing an application made by Cyprus Turkish Airlines (CTA) for direct flights from UK airports to Ercan, Northern Cyprus, according to a spokesperson from the Ministry of Transport.

A spokesperson from the Ministry of Transport confirmed to Toplum Postası reporters that the ministry had recently received an official application from CTA and the government is considering it at present. “The British government will decide soon,” said the official. Meanwhile, another spokesman from the British Civil Aviation Authority informed Toplum Postası that following recent changes in rules and regulations within the EU any decision about direct flights will be made with the EU aviation authority. The spokesperson added that since 1992 depending upon customary technical, security, and health and safety requirements, any official airline company registered within the EU can fly in theory anywhere they want within the EU.

However, the spokesperson added that a decision made by the British government would likely be a political and legal decision, as neither Cyprus Turkish Airlines nor Ercan are within the EU. CTA is an Istanbul registered company. To encourage a positive decision on the part of the government, eight Lords have written a letter to the Daily Telegraph Editor asking for the government to look positively at direct flights from the UK to Northern Cyprus.

http://www.toplumpostasi.net/index.php/ ... me/English

[Pyrpolizer]

any official airline company registered within the EU can fly in theory anywhere they want within the EU.

Right. Even land on a highway….
What nonsense is this?

a decision made by the British government would likely be a political and legal decision, as neither Cyprus Turkish Airlines nor Ercan are within the EU.

Another nonsense. Ercan is in the EU at an area where the Aquis is suspended. There is pending a decision at the EU court as to the exact meaning of this suspension.

To make a long story short any airline that will dare land without permission from the Authority that represents Cyprus in the EU will be sued, and will be sued for all its assets and liabilities until it goes bankrupt.