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Will GCs apply to the property commission in the North?

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby stuballstu » Mon Dec 11, 2006 7:51 pm

We are not talking about Turkey here, we are talking what the suspension of the EU Aquis in the occupied means in terms of RoC enforcing it’s law. You know very well you cannot export to the EU simply because the RoC does not accept an illegally occupied port of hers to do exports from illegally grabbed lands. You call it embargo? The fact is there is no state in the world who would not "embargo" all illegalities within it. For your information the major exports of Famagusta port after 1974 were stolen TVs, Refrigerators washing machines, furniture, household whatever. You were the largest exporter of these commodities in the whole world. Cyprus in 1974 was mainly exporting citrus, would you really expect to give you our approval when you grabbed by force almost 20 times more orchards that what you left behind?
You might think this was unfair, but then how about the multiple unfairness you imposed and still imposing on us.


Pyrpolizer

i am a little puzzled now. Surely the ROC is not imposing its law. There are several UN resolution on Cyprus on the occupation and the "TRNC". These have came from the UN not the ROC.

I dont understand how Famagusta dock became the "biggest exporter of these commodities in the whole world". It would have been lucky if there couldn't have been that many TV's or these commodities on an island the size of Cyprus. Besided given the electric voltage in Cyprus where is it possible that these products could have been sold to?

If you think that "stealing 20 more orchards than what we left behind" is oppression then i have to disagree. GC's for the last 30 years have hardly been oppressed. Denied rights to property and lands I'll grant you but oppressed......seems a little strong. I beleive that your current government have a lot to answer their own people. Giving them false hope to fuel their own power and ego is, too use your choice of descriptions, oppressing ordinary GC people.


You forgot your passports that are absolutely necessary to get free education at European Universities, you forgot that the TC chamber of Commerce (commerce not congress lol) is actually authorised by RoC to do what you said, you forgot the aid for the TCs through the EU that once again needs RoCs approval as how is going to be used, you forgot the fact that you are Europeans thanks to RoC whereas the settlers are not. You don’t need to say thank you, just appreciate it and don’t throw every possitive step we take towards you (despite your own violation of our rights) in the dustbin. Of course you would be more happy if Roc would let you exploit all the illegalities against us, but sorry no state that respects ALL its citizens can do that.



Sorry for the typo :oops: flippin spell check!!!! of course it is congress.

The EU can not give aid direct to TC's because that would be tantamount to "official" recognition. Please don't forget that this money was a "carrot" to the TC's to say yes to Annan the same way as direct trade was also promised in return for the "yes" vote. It is only after 2 and a bit years that they received the funding. The rest of the EU would not have looked to favourably on the ROC had they not given the green light for this money. It does come with strings attached though as you know. There are restrictions on what it can be used for. Although given its Cyprus new cars for the government ministers will no doubt be on the list :wink:

Most Cypriots would be Europeans anyway. There is a huge amount of cypriots both TC and GC who hold British passports or are eligible for British passports given its a former British colony. For example if your father or mother had one then you too are also entitled to one. All cypriots that had passports prior to 1960 were entitled to British passports.
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Postby stuballstu » Mon Dec 11, 2006 8:25 pm

Quote:
It is not about proving that something is legal, it is about proving something is illegal Piratis can you do that? Time to shit or get off the pan on this one Piratis you are clutching at straws.


Mr. car dealer, did you manage to finish high school?

Ok, let me again try to explain it to you, if you don't understand it go complain to your mother, not to me.

A country has laws about how things should work. Republic of Cyprus has laws about property, about courts, about government institutions etc. Anything that exists beyond these laws is illegal. Or maybe you expected that RoC should say:

"TRNC" committee is illegal
Stupidstu committee is illegal
Piratis committee is illegal
Wonderland committee is illegal



Piratis

If you are going to address me with a title please make it my proper title which is "Sir Car Dealer". I dont understand the relevance of your point?

Yes i did finish school, did quite well actually thanks for asking did u?

I did as you requested i complained to my mother :)

Actually having read the posts i was wondering where you have the idea of me complaining? I was just pointing out the legal innaccuracies in your arguements. As you cant answer them and have no answer, legally, you want to try and get personal ie "Mr Car Dealer" and "complain to your mother". Very grown up and mature Piratis. How did you ever become moderator???

If they are legal then let them show us the RoC documents that authorize them to perform such actions and decide for property instead of the official state institutions. If they don't have such authorization from RoC it means they are illegal. Even a small one person company is obligate to take licence to function, if it doesn't then it is illegal, there is no need for the government to come and say XYZ company is illegal.


This is getting repetitive now. I have tried to spell it out to you on previous posts but you can't grasp what i am saying. Please point out to me where it says under ROC law that the property commission is illegal. If there is no law governing this then it is not illegal. The ECHR has asked Turkey to provide local remedies for GC refugees for property claims. They in turn have asked the TRNC as a local subordinate ( as you know legally the TRNC does not exist and is referred to as the area of Cyprus under Turkish occupation) to provide this. It is only a matter of time before the ECHR ratifies this and all GC refugees will have to apply to this first. The ECHR will only then look at claims that could not be concluded by the said commission. So if what you claim is illegal, which legally you haven't proved yet, what are ordinary GC's supposed to do? They are not allowed to apply to an "illegal" commission and without that application can not apply to the ECHR so what next for the refugees? If this commission is illegal what is the penalty for a GC applying to it? How long do they get in jail for committing a so called "illegal" act?

You also know legally the ROC has no jurisdiction in the North. So what is the point of passing laws directed there, which can not be enforced there?

RoC can tomorrow come out of EU and the laws of EU will stop having any effect on Cyprus. RoC wants the laws of EU in Cyprus. So RoC decides what laws apply to Cyprus and nobody else


The EU ain't a golf club Piratis it is not just a case of saying we don't want to be in it. The ROC only has a vote on the laws of the EU however by majority they are implemented in member states even if they didn't want them. The ROC has a say, but the ultimate decision is by the majority of EU member states. Member states can not be selective with which laws it can apply or can't.

stupidstu, do you realize the extent of the crap that you say? The north part of Cyprus is illegally occupied by Turkey and the 40.000 occupation troops exist there for the sole reason of illegally stopping RoC applying its laws over the north part of the country. How hard is this for you to understand?


Your right Piratis I am stupid :)

As you well know i pointed out to you that the ROC has no control over the "north". It can not apply its laws there. If that's the extent of the crap i say then its true i talk crap. Back to the insults again? Can't win the argument so I'll accuse others of talking crap. You really are a good role model GC and moderator of this forum. Bravo Piratis, Bravo.
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Postby skipper » Mon Dec 11, 2006 8:25 pm

Actually products do get exported from famagusta to third countries and in fact could be exported to the EU as well, the reason why it does n't happen is that the duty on things like Citrus fruits is added and that the goods have to go via Turkey does n't leave any profit. What happens now for example with Citrus fruit again (I know since I have 500 trees) is that you either give them to some guy in Turkey for practically free, or just leave them on the trees, so someone is profiting but I can assure its not TC's. Besides agriculture comes in 4th I think in terms of economic activity, so opening up famagusta would n't make much difference even to me.

What would make a difference to me would be to get packages in via plane so that I could manufacture and export my goods, something that is n't possible at the moment so it gets done in Turkey.

As far as I am aware the Turkish Cypriot Chambers of Commerce have always had the authority since 1960 to certify and stamp goods it's not a new thing.
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Postby Alexis » Mon Dec 11, 2006 8:29 pm

GC's for the last 30 years have hardly been oppressed. Denied rights to property and lands I'll grant you but oppressed......seems a little stron


And that's not oppression? These people were driven from their homes and denied access to even look at them for 30 years and you don't count that as oppression? What about those few GCs that were left behind and dwindled in numbers over time? I guess they were not oppressed either?
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Postby stuballstu » Mon Dec 11, 2006 8:32 pm

Be careful Skipper.

Piratis is going to assume these trees are a refugees, log your ISP and report you to the Citrus police
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Postby stuballstu » Mon Dec 11, 2006 8:41 pm

Quote:
GC's for the last 30 years have hardly been oppressed. Denied rights to property and lands I'll grant you but oppressed......seems a little stron


And that's not oppression? These people were driven from their homes and denied access to even look at them for 30 years and you don't count that as oppression? What about those few GCs that were left behind and dwindled in numbers over time? I guess they were not oppressed either?



Alexis

I don't want to simplify what has happened to refugees i do hope that they receive amicable/ fair restitution.

With respect if you want examples of "oppression" you just have to look at Iraq and many African countries like Zimbabwe and Rwanda. That is why in my opinion the word "oppression" was a little too strong when referring to what happened to Cypriots.
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Postby Pyrpolizer » Mon Dec 11, 2006 8:57 pm

stuballstu wrote: Surely the ROC is not imposing its law. There are several UN resolution on Cyprus on the occupation and the "TRNC". These have came from the UN not the ROC.


Then whose law is it imposing on the matter of Famagusta port? Whose law is it imposing on the matter of Ercan airport? The law of the "trnc"? The law of Turkey? The UN resolutions don’t say anything about them…. in fact if RoC may decide otherwise the UN has no say whatsoever.

I repeat the EU Aquis in the occupied is not suspended per se, the EU still requires their own laws and regulations to be applied there e.g concerning goods exported to them from there. What is suspended is the responsibility of RoC (and any measures against her by the EU) for her inability to excercise her law where she can’t.

wrote: If you think that "stealing 20 more orchards than what we left behind" is oppression then i have to disagree. GC's for the last 30 years have hardly been oppressed.


Please! Really pleeease! This is very hard for me to swallow. Listem my friend you just looked at us 30 years after. You saw we made miracles. That’s fine.

Did you come have a look at us in 1974, in 1975 in 1976? Facts are we did not even have food to eat my dear. My family was actually living with those disgusting tinned sardines the UN was sending us. Today when I see sardines and tined food I vomit immediately. My family was living….
Sorry I don’t want to continue. We were poor, hungry, nowhere to live, my father left the country 2 years later. The situation was tragic for the refugees. As for those who were not refugees, the situation was not brilliant either,remember the northern part was the richest, the southern part was almost like a dead place.Tthere were no jobs, but at least the non refugees had a house to live in.
What were the TCs doing then stuballstu? Having parties?

wrote: Denied rights to property and lands I'll grant you but oppressed......seems a little strong. I beleive that your current government have a lot to answer their own people. Giving them false hope to fuel their own power and ego is, too use your choice of descriptions, oppressing ordinary GC people.


Who said oppressed? I said unfair. And if you think the hopes come from our government then you are wrong. This is our expectation, this is the demand of the people themselves. Perhaps is you who is having false hopes that you can keep what you took from us for eternity. What would you do to your leaders when this is proved wrong? You think there can ever be a solution on any other terms? You think the status quo will last for eternity? Or you think that by any miracle you will get recognition?

wrote: The EU can not give aid direct to TC's because that would be tantamount to "official" recognition.


This reconfirms that RoC is excercising her law. So whose law has precedence here, the illegalities that some EU members wanted to pass, or the law of Roc which is tin line with the Aquis?

wrote: Most Cypriots would be Europeans anyway. There is a huge amount of cypriots both TC and GC who hold British passports or are eligible for British passports given its a former British colony. For example if your father or mother had one then you too are also entitled to one. All cypriots that had passports prior to 1960 were entitled to British passports.


After 1960 people living in Cyprus had to chose citizenship.What you said is not quite true, if it were like that then the people living in India and Sri Lanka would be EU citizens today! :lol:
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Postby Pyrpolizer » Mon Dec 11, 2006 9:11 pm

I beleive the situating of that committee in the occupied north will in fact eventually be judged illegal by the EU court. Internal remedy courts cannot be situated outside the Country in question.
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Postby Pyrpolizer » Mon Dec 11, 2006 9:15 pm

Skipper wrote: What would make a difference to me would be to get packages in via plane so that I could manufacture and export my goods, something that is n't possible at the moment so it gets done in Turkey.


Can’t you export them from Larnaca?
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Postby skipper » Mon Dec 11, 2006 9:23 pm

The Aquis is suspended in the north, it says so in clear language in Protocol 10 of the ascession treaty. Goods exported via the Green Line regulation are stamped by the TCCC and then verified and sealed by EU officials, it does n't have anything to do with the RoC. The EU has the authority to do this, however the regulation had to be approved by all 25 members, so the GC's obviously protected their interests at the time.
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