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[zan]

Murataga in case you forgot what was agreed almost 30 years back under different conditions was bi-zonal, bi-communal Federation. This means 2 parts (not 50 as per USA), each part administered by one of the communities, and Federal. When this was agreed there were no settlers and you did not sell the most valuable of our properties to foreigners. During the years Denktash insisted on this stange term of Political equality which strictly translated means 50-50 thus killing the Federal concept and introducing the concept of confederation. NONE of these is accepted. In fact we do not accept anything less than a standard federation with no strict bi-zonality and no strict bi-communality. this is the price you have to pay for importing settlers, changing the demographics of the island, and selling our properties without having the equivalent to exchange.

And the price you paid for trying to change the constitution without proper legal consent and then trying to wipe us off the face of the earth was RoC=63%. TRNC=37%. There seems to be a price for everything. The Greek currency of blood letting is not the only currency in the world.

another broken record...Ok lets tally up how many GC's and how many TC's were murdered. That should make you fell better.

Greek currency again. Who cares about numbers. One TC or one GC is too many. We are talking about events here. It was the GC presidents responsibility to look after all Cypriots, instead he caused a war. By the way just by saying "another broken record" like another broken record will not disarm my arguement. Want to think of something else.

[DT.]

Murataga in case you forgot what was agreed almost 30 years back under different conditions was bi-zonal, bi-communal Federation. This means 2 parts (not 50 as per USA), each part administered by one of the communities, and Federal. When this was agreed there were no settlers and you did not sell the most valuable of our properties to foreigners. During the years Denktash insisted on this stange term of Political equality which strictly translated means 50-50 thus killing the Federal concept and introducing the concept of confederation. NONE of these is accepted. In fact we do not accept anything less than a standard federation with no strict bi-zonality and no strict bi-communality. this is the price you have to pay for importing settlers, changing the demographics of the island, and selling our properties without having the equivalent to exchange.

And the price you paid for trying to change the constitution without proper legal consent and then trying to wipe us off the face of the earth was RoC=63%. TRNC=37%. There seems to be a price for everything. The Greek currency of blood letting is not the only currency in the world.

another broken record...Ok lets tally up how many GC's and how many TC's were murdered. That should make you fell better.

Greek currency again. Who cares about numbers. One TC or one GC is too many. We are talking about events here. It was the GC presidents responsibility to look after all Cypriots, instead he caused a war. By the way just by saying "another broken record" like another broken record will not disarm my arguement. Want to think of something else.

Stop being a broken record and I'll stop saying it. Just like the VP was meant to be a VP to all cypriots...right?

Now tell me...which GC president exactly caused a war????????

[zan]

Stop being a broken record and I'll stop saying it. Just like the VP was meant to be a VP to all cypriots...right?

Now tell me...which GC president exactly caused a war????????

Looks like we will be repeating ourselves then.



And you have got to be joking right about which president........errrrrr the first one?

[Murataga]

Prypolizer, you wrote:
NONE of these is accepted. In fact we do not accept anything less than a standard federation with no strict bi-zonality and no strict bi-communality. this is the price you have to pay for importing settlers, changing the demographics of the island, and selling our properties without having the equivalent to exchange.

I am sorry you feel this way. I will not get into an exchange of accusations or make a list of what your side should have to pay for many things they have done. As an intelligent person you should appreciate that we have our long lists of accusations, sufferings and bad memories with your people aswell. However, this kind of deamonizing will lead us no where.

I hope the leaders of our communities soon agree on the only existing comprehensive solution to the Cyprus problem which stands on the principals of bi-communality, political equality and bi-zonality.

[alexISS]

You are wrong Alex. In each and every TV discussion show there was ALWAYS an equal number of yes and no supporters. And we don’t mean weak unimportant people from either side having no idea. We talk for the highest possible names in Cypriot society, top ranking lawyers etc.

Simply it turned out the yes supporters had no arguments, or they had less arguments. An independent viewer would see the yes supporters literally torn apart

I was an independent viewer and what I saw was definately not what you describe, but there's no point in continuing this

As to the polls you saw in Greece you have to specify the exact date.

I even posted the link to the site. The date was April 19.

If we talk for early 2004 most people did not believe there would be any developments so the vast majority had no idea about the Anan Plan. So pollos done during that period were meaningless.
Valid polls were the ones made during the last 1-2 months before the referendum. During that period I would not count much the opinion of the mainland Greeks as very very few of them really cared or concerned about this matter.

I had extensive discussions with many Greeks and Greek Cypriots, to me Greeks seemed better informed but neither you nor me can prove either view.

Not even your newly elected prime Minister Karamanlis and Co American Slaves incorporated really cared for whatever would happen in Cyprus.
For your information he was heard crying to his colleaques inside the taxi driving him from the hotel "why the hell did they bring me here, what do I have to do about this?"

Well Karamanlis had the difficult task of babysitting Papadopoulos who, if left alone, would have isolated Cyprus from the EU even before the accession. I agree that Papadopoulos is hated by almost all Greek politicians, having to convince him to say anything more than "NO!, I'M LEAVING!" must have been difficult for the Greek PM, no wonder why he was pissed.

Tell me now you never heard that what he was actually doing all day was playing tavli at the hotel?

Of course, it was all over the news, there were cameras and journalists keeping score. Are you serious?!?

NB. Happy sell out of your Country to the Americans my friend. Your Dora excells

Happy partition of yours by your sold out to Denktash president, Pyrpolizer.
I wouldn't expect anything more from you, remember what you told me a few months ago?

In fact here WE ARE PAYING because of you. Understand what I mean?

You are obviously not the most objective person to judge Greek politics and politicians

[DT.]

Stop being a broken record and I'll stop saying it. Just like the VP was meant to be a VP to all cypriots...right?

Now tell me...which GC president exactly caused a war????????

Looks like we will be repeating ourselves then.



And you have got to be joking right about which president........errrrrr the first one?

How did Makarios cause the war in 74?

[zan]

Stop being a broken record and I'll stop saying it. Just like the VP was meant to be a VP to all cypriots...right?

Now tell me...which GC president exactly caused a war????????

Looks like we will be repeating ourselves then.



And you have got to be joking right about which president........errrrrr the first one?

How did Makarios cause the war in 74?

OH! Now come on I can only assume that you are being arguementative, with a comment like that. He had it in his power to make Cyprus and he broke it thus 1974, simple really. Our first president....hurra!

[DT.]

he cause d a war in 74 when he proposed amendments to the consitution because every single action of the government was being blocked?

Its documented in state dept files that have been recently opened up, Turkey tried to invade 3 times before 74 and the US stopped it. I think with Mother Teresa as president there would still be an excuse for the invasion.

All very good and well discussing inter-communally but are we all so naive that we are completely elminating the important strategic asset that cyprus is to turkey with or without TC's?

[Bananiot]

The proposed amendments of the Constitution were the beginning of the end for Cyprus. Inonu, a gentle and considerate president tried in vain to put some sense into Makarios's brain but to no avail. Obviously the Turkish Community would never agree to the amendments and to make sure that they were forced onto the people Makarios encouraged and funded paramilitary armies led by Yiorgatzis, Papadopoulos, Lissarides and Sampson. These butchers went onto a murder spree and its no good hiding behind our finger DT.

They brought the worst out of our community DT and its enough to see what happened even among friends. When the Turkish Cypriots started moving out ot their houses in the mixed villages where they were the minority in order to seek safer homes, their until then friends and neighbours moved in, looted and destroyed their houses. When a vein effort was made by some to resist, they were killied and buried. In one instance the burial took place so hastily that a murdered man's arm stuck out of the earth.

Unfortunately, Turkey's invasion did not fall from the sky. We invited Turkey to come and at least, if we have the guts to face our cruel past and the mistakes we made, we could look forward to a better future. Please, DT do not tell me that the other side did similar things because I am well aware of the actions of TMT. I for one, care only for the atrocities and the wrongs committed by the fanatics of my community that have cost all of us very dearly. Progresive Turkish Cypriots, such as Sevgul, have documented quite well what the bigots of the other side have done.

P.S. Mustafa Akinci, called the other day, for the mountain flag to be brought down. Soon, he recieved an orchestrated attack by the patriots of his side. you can all guess, I am sure, what they asked him to do.

[DT.]

I have no issues with facing our past and am the first to admit we were not angels in 63, however how come no one talks about what turkey did in 63 and talks only of 74?

Did we all imagine the fighter planes bombarding our island in 63? DId we imagine the UN resolutions asking for the stop of the bombing by the turkish airforce along with the fighting on the ground?

Bananiot, it takes a very progressive person indeed to pput all their prejudices aside and say "We got our homes taken away, our loved ones killed and 32 years on we are still refugees, however I can even it out in my mind because of the hardship that my people made the others endure" THis can only work if

1) You've balanced the 2 out which in my mind cannot be done
2) You strongly believe that had nothing happened between TC's and GC's Turkey would have not even attempted to grab at least a base for its own interests.