Cyprus-Forum.com

[Murataga]

o.k. this discussion is getting out of control as it has become very difficult to keep up with who is talking to who and about what...

My response is to Pyrpolizer:

=====> @Murataga and Zan, So you basically want partition, i.e a part of Cyprus to belong to you, be administred by you, and you want that be agreed with the GCs.This would be possible if the now occupied areas 37% of the land belonged to you.

///////// For the fisrt part: Yes, we want our political equality, self-adminstrative rights and the principle of bi-zonality to be agreed with the GCs. The rest (part of Cyprus to belong to you, be administred by you) is already there in case you did not notice...

For the second part: No, strictly "37%" ownership of Cyprus land is not the only way an agreed partition can happen. The land distribution can be altered to some extent given that the other side shows good will and makes certain compromises.


=====> As you know almost 90% of the privately owned lands in that area belongs to GCs.

////// I am going to have to mark your number as fictitous. However, as I have stressed in the past many times, it is no use for us to get into a quarrel of numbers as it will get us no where. Furthermore, you are simply ignoring the properties of the Turks in the South.


=====> I said before the solution is going to be BITTER both for you and for us. I wonder if your leaders ever told you that… For your information they told us that hundreds of times, however I am not sure many GC people understood why. I am curious if your leaders told you that even once.

///// I agree with you and yes, we are well aware that a true solution will mean compromises for both sides.

But more importantly a true solution is a one that acknowledges the desire of both societies to live without neither side being allowed, directly or implicitly, to extend its will, legitimacy or sovereignty over the other.

The concerns you raise are certainly understandable but nevertheless they are strictly technical. In other words, they can be solved through negotiations and compromises once both sides agree on the principal of bi-communality, political equality and bi-zonality.

[Piratis]

I would like to repeat something that I said earlier. "In real life there are no solutions. Only options". In April 2004 we had the option to solve our problem using the AP as a vehicle, with all its failings and complexities, or to wait, for a better, so called European solution.

Bananiot, you didn't vote "no", you voted "yes" so you don't know why we voted no. All polls and elections after the Annan plan prove that people didn't vote "no" to Annan plan because they hoped for something better to come soon, but because the Annan plan would be worst even from what we have now.

So if our only options were, as you say Annan partition plan, or an official partition, then we would go for the official partition. However those are not our only options. The other option is to keep fighting for our rights. Thats the best option. It doesn't give us back our land right away, but at least it harms our enemies and it allow us to hope that in the future we will be able to take back our land. So as you say, what we chose was not a solution, but it was the best available option.

I also note that you again didn't reply to my questions. You are only good in accusing Papadopoulos and nothing more.

[Piratis]

Murataga, to me it is obvious that Turks are trying to gain on our loss. You want an "agreed" partition, but under the circumstances we will not even discuss it. If we start discussing such thing, a problem of occupation of part of Republic of Cyprus by a foreign country, will be transformed to land disputes between 2 states. So we will not be dragged at such discussion.

The only kind of partition that might be acceptable is if the 18% of TCs keep 18% of land and 18% of coast line. If you disagree with these numbers, then lets forget about the whole discussion.

Show to us that your intention is not to gain on our loss and then we will be talking. As long as you expect to gain on our loss in one way or another, be sure that you will lose more than us.

[Murataga]

Piratis, no, our intention is not to gain on your loss. However, compromise is mandatory for both parties if a settlement is to be reached in Cyprus.

And by the way, I would not make such sharp remarks on who looses more than the other in what is to happen in the future if I were you.

[Bananiot]

Piratis, I have made my points as far as this thread is concerned and I have nothing more to add. However, I would just like to point out to you that all you are doing at the moment is to call for Turkey to take pre emptive action against us because you are constantly threatening with war, once we get the upper hand. If Turkey is half as witty as you are then she should, without delay, destroy all our military capabilities before we grow too strong for her.

[Pyrpolizer]

Bananiot why do you just read the last 2 posts of Murataga and give us your comments on those for a change?

[Pyrpolizer]

Murataga in case you forgot what was agreed almost 30 years back under different conditions was bi-zonal, bi-communal Federation. This means 2 parts (not 50 as per USA), each part administered by one of the communities, and Federal. When this was agreed there were no settlers and you did not sell the most valuable of our properties to foreigners. During the years Denktash insisted on this stange term of Political equality which strictly translated means 50-50 thus killing the Federal concept and introducing the concept of confederation. NONE of these is accepted. In fact we do not accept anything less than a standard federation with no strict bi-zonality and no strict bi-communality. this is the price you have to pay for importing settlers, changing the demographics of the island, and selling our properties without having the equivalent to exchange.

[Viewpoint]

Murataga in case you forgot what was agreed almost 30 years back under different conditions was bi-zonal, bi-communal Federation. This means 2 parts (not 50 as per USA), each part administered by one of the communities, and Federal. When this was agreed there were no settlers and you did not sell the most valuable of our properties to foreigners. During the years Denktash insisted on this stange term of Political equality which strictly translated means 50-50 thus killing the Federal concept and introducing the concept of confederation. NONE of these is accepted. In fact we do not accept anything less than a standard federation with no strict bi-zonality and no strict bi-communality. this is the price you have to pay for importing settlers, changing the demographics of the island, and selling our properties without having the equivalent to exchange.

REJECTED

[zan]

Murataga in case you forgot what was agreed almost 30 years back under different conditions was bi-zonal, bi-communal Federation. This means 2 parts (not 50 as per USA), each part administered by one of the communities, and Federal. When this was agreed there were no settlers and you did not sell the most valuable of our properties to foreigners. During the years Denktash insisted on this stange term of Political equality which strictly translated means 50-50 thus killing the Federal concept and introducing the concept of confederation. NONE of these is accepted. In fact we do not accept anything less than a standard federation with no strict bi-zonality and no strict bi-communality. this is the price you have to pay for importing settlers, changing the demographics of the island, and selling our properties without having the equivalent to exchange.

And the price you paid for trying to change the constitution without proper legal consent and then trying to wipe us off the face of the earth was RoC=63%. TRNC=37%. There seems to be a price for everything. The Greek currency of blood letting is not the only currency in the world.

[DT.]

Murataga in case you forgot what was agreed almost 30 years back under different conditions was bi-zonal, bi-communal Federation. This means 2 parts (not 50 as per USA), each part administered by one of the communities, and Federal. When this was agreed there were no settlers and you did not sell the most valuable of our properties to foreigners. During the years Denktash insisted on this stange term of Political equality which strictly translated means 50-50 thus killing the Federal concept and introducing the concept of confederation. NONE of these is accepted. In fact we do not accept anything less than a standard federation with no strict bi-zonality and no strict bi-communality. this is the price you have to pay for importing settlers, changing the demographics of the island, and selling our properties without having the equivalent to exchange.

And the price you paid for trying to change the constitution without proper legal consent and then trying to wipe us off the face of the earth was RoC=63%. TRNC=37%. There seems to be a price for everything. The Greek currency of blood letting is not the only currency in the world.

another broken record...Ok lets tally up how many GC's and how many TC's were murdered. That should make you fell better.