Cyprus-Forum.com

[erolz]

Anyway, these are my thoughts on the matter ...

I think your thoughts are a sensible approach.

[KELEBEK]

Alexandros Lordos

My own family was from the northern part of the island, and ofcourse we had to abandon our homes in 1974, so I also remember growing up in a very tense and troubled psychological climate ...

My family also moved abroad after the war in search of a better life, but we eventually resettled in Cyprus, sometime in the 1980s.

Yes, but atleast you could return. Atleast you could resettle in a recognized country with all the facilities, shopping malls, hospitals, amenities, and where one can trade freely with the rest of the planet and get direct flights to most destinations of the World, and where you and your Children can get a good job on the island. Asking me to leave America and the high standard of living that my family and I are accustomed to and move to isolated Northern Cyprus is not an option in any real sense. You cannot compare the lives of T/Cs under economic sanctions in Northern Cyprus to yours, nor can you say that our diaspora has the option to return-we dont.

Anyway, these are my thoughts on the matter ... and if I may ask you now a personal question: Would you consider returning to Cyprus if a permanent solution is found? You'll be surprised to hear that most Greek Cypriots actually favor the return of Turkish Cypriots from emigration ...

A neighbour of ours Alexandros visited our village outside Limassol last year to visit his own home, what he found was that the houses (many of them like our home were brand new) had been bulldozed and even the bricks had been taken away. We have nothing to return to.

You say most G/C favor T/C returning, but where did you get this information? Trying to erase any evidence that T/C ever lived in South Cyprus kind of contradicts this view.

[Othellos]

So? I live in the US. big deal.

Imho and in the case of those Cypriots (GC and TC) who live (or lived for years) abroad, many of them tend to see Cyprus under a "different light", while remaining entrenched to the same "traditional" views that were influenced from (and at the same time shaped) the events of the 50's, the 60's and the 70's. From your short performance in this forum Kelebek, one can place you nowhere else but in a group such as the above, otherwise you wouldn't be preaching us all from 10,000 miles away about building higher and stronger walls when what we all need here in year 2005 is a viable solution from which all Cypriots can benefit and prosper together.

While you have lived most (if not all) your life in sunny California, you also claimed earlier that you are living among the settlers every day, which of course is not true! All I know is that several TC's who live in Cyprus say other things about the current situation of the TC community and the settlers. So why should one even consider what you say as accurate, especially when it is more than obvious that your main purpose in here is how to provoke other members?

Most T/Cs in the World live outside Cyprus, that is a sad fact but true. Thanks to G/C agression before 1974 and during 1974 there are T/C in almost corner of the World.

Indeed, sad but true: many TC's live outside Cyprus although you leave aside the fact that most of them (over 55,000 if I am not mistaken) left Cyprus after the Turkish invasion. Do not tell me about the GC "embargo" myth because this "dusty little rock" (a.k.a Republic of Cyprus) is too small to dictate the rest of the world whether they can trade with the occupied areas or not. Not to mention that Turkey could have easily taken good care of the 100,000+ TC's (= the population of a small size town in Turkey) if they really wanted to.

My father now works in a hospital in the bay area of San Francisco and my mother in Santa Cruz, we came here because we were not allowed to enjoy our lives and exercise our rights in Cyprus.

While I do know for a fact that there were other TC's who did not have an easy life before 1974 (but not always and only because of the GC's as you want to claim) I cannot help but notice how your above statement about "not being able to enjoy your lives in Cyprus" contradicts an earlier post of yours about your family living in a house with 6 rooms and owning a Bentley (do not get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with owning a big house and driving nice cars). Other than that I too am sorry for all the pain that all Cypriots (regardless of ethnic origin) suffered from the 1950's to the present and I only wish that everyone else felt the same.

What I am against more than anything is the suggestion that only the Turkish settlers leave and not the Pontians. I think this is unfair and it will give greater political power to your community over ours.

If the Pontians (who are here with foreign passports and on temporary worker visas) were allocated TC houses and title deeds for them by the Cypriot Government, then you would have been absolutely correct. But since this is not the case, I am afraid that you are either mistaken or deliberately avoiding the truth for the reasons that I explained earlier in this post.

O.

[KELEBEK]

Othellos

Imho and in the case of those Cypriots (GC and TC) who live (or lived for years) abroad, many of them tend to see Cyprus under a "different light", while remaining entrenched to the same "traditional" views that were influenced from (and at the same time shaped) the events of the 50's, the 60's and the 70's. From your short performance in this forum Kelebek, one can place you nowhere else but in a group such as the above, otherwise you wouldn't be preaching us all from 10,000 miles away about building higher and stronger walls when what we all need here in year 2005 is a viable solution from which all Cypriots can benefit and prosper together.

While you have lived most (if not all) your life in sunny California, you also claimed earlier that you are living among the settlers every day, which of course is not true! All I know is that several TC's who live in Cyprus say other things about the current situation of the TC community and the settlers. So why should one even consider what you say as accurate, especially when it is more than obvious that your main purpose in here is how to provoke other members?

I`m entitled to have an opinion. I know my people. My information is not based on the 1950s or 60s but on what real people living in Northern Cyprus tell me when they leave the island to come here, and on what I have observed on my numerous trips to North Cyprus. After living in a refugee camp in Adana Turkey for nearly a year, I think I have earned my right to speak about Cyprus. Thank you!

I am being realistic in pointing out to you that its better to live divided. In 30 years of high level talks have they ever agreed to anything? What makes you think we can run a govt together? Do you really think T/C would feel comfortable with Papadoc as their president?

I dont need to provoke other people, you G/Cs are happy to accept Piratis` vitriolic remarks about T/Cs because he is a he and a G/C, but if a T/C female defends her community in the same manner, then its called provokation. I fear these practices are going to be carried into the future United States of Cyprus!

Indeed, sad but true: many TC's live outside Cyprus although you leave aside the fact that most of them (over 55,000 if I am not mistaken) left Cyprus after the Turkish invasion. Do not tell me about the GC "embargo" myth because this "dusty little rock" (a.k.a Republic of Cyprus) is too small to dictate the rest of the world whether they can trade with the occupied areas or not. Not to mention that Turkey could have easily taken good care of the 100,000+ TC's (= the population of a small size town in Turkey) if they really wanted to.

Yes but the Turkish intervention took place at the same time as the G/C acts of genocide and the failed Greek coup-d`etat, so you cant hold Turkey entirely accountable for this mass movement of people. Nice one!

Too small but with Greece and the Greek lobby here in the US not too small. Your pal Rossides can certainly scratch a few backs of congressmen to get what he wants. Just look at the US arms embargo on Turkey after 1974, this was because of the Greek lobby. Similarly Midnight express, a film falsely portraying Turkey as a nation of pigs was funded and supported by Greek Americans.

Turkey has helped the T/Cs alot, but it has had its own problems to deal with too. The high inflation, 1981 coup d`etat etc...

While I do know for a fact that there were other TC's who did not have an easy life before 1974 (but not always and only because of the GC's as you want to claim) I cannot help but notice how your above statement about "not being able to enjoy your lives in Cyprus" contradicts an earlier post of yours about your family living in a house with 6 rooms and owning a Bentley (do not get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with owning a big house and driving nice cars). Other than that I too am sorry for all the pain that all Cypriots (regardless of ethnic origin) suffered from the 1950's to the present and I only wish that everyone else felt the same.

Even wealthy people deserve to be able to exercise their rights and enjoy their wealth. My family worked very hard to build their Limassol home and my grand parents worked very very hard, saving every shilling to educate my father by sending him to School in France and university in Switzerland. My Mothers family also worked very hard and saved every shilling to send her to School and pay for her to finish her 7 year Medical degree in England.

If the Pontians (who are here with foreign passports and on temporary worker visas) were allocated TC houses and title deeds for them by the Cypriot Government, then you would have been absolutely correct. But since this is not the case, I am afraid that you are either mistaken or deliberately avoiding the truth for the reasons that I explained earlier in this post.

This may be true, although I have different information. Supposing it is, can Turkish settlers stay with foreign passports then? Or is that unacceptable?

All I am saying is why is it OK for them to be in Cyprus even without Cyprus passports orr T/C properties but not Turkish settlers. Its inconsistent.

[Alexandros Lordos]

A neighbour of ours Alexandros visited our village outside Limassol last year to visit his own home, what he found was that the houses (many of them like our home were brand new) had been bulldozed and even the bricks had been taken away. We have nothing to return to.

Really? Which village are you from?

... When I was suggesting that you might return after a settlement, I did not mean necessarily in your ancestral village. Both my parents' villages are in Greek Cypriot controlled areas and yet I haven't been to either village in years ... I guess our generation is one of city dwellers

What I really meant, would you come and resettle in the Turkish Cypriot constituent state of a re-united Cyprus, which will have, by then, all the recognition and economic vitality that it needs? Would you come and live in Girne/Kyrenia, or Lefkosa/Nicosia or wherever? ...

Cyprus needs its people, Kelebek. Especially those who, like you, have experience of life abroad in a modern and democratic country ...

I think you feel like an exile from your own home, and it is this thought that makes you angry. But perhaps you don't have to be an exile forever ...

[KELEBEK]

We are from Polemidhia.

If they could make Girne like Santa Clara and offer me the same $80,000 a year IT job, then maybe. I would be happy to live in Girne if I can also move my friends and my family, I also have to persuade my Armenian fiance to come.

[KELEBEK]

Well, I am going to be married next week!

I `ll be Ebru Mehmet Souvalian!

[-mikkie2-]

Erol,

I think you know my position well regarding the settlers.

I have said that those that came after the invasion should stay because they have built a life here and integrated.

Those that are here to make a quick buck and to live off our stolen land should be given incentives to leave.

The rights of the indigenous displaced Cypriots should be put first. And my argument has always been that for a fair settlement, the more settlers that are repatriated, then the fairer the settlement will be for all Cypriots. But I guess using the settlers as a political tool has been the No.1 piority for Turkey and TC politicians.

[Alexandros Lordos]

We are from Polemidhia.

If they could make Girne like Santa Clara and offer me the same $80,000 a year IT job, then maybe. I would be happy to live in Girne if I can also move my friends and my family, I also have to persuade my Armenian fiance to come.

So I guess you are staying then ... after all, who would want to live in pitiful Girne when they can have $80,000 a year in the States, eh?

Polemidhia is now settled almost exclusively by refugees from the north, if my memory serves me correctly. A huge refugee camp was built there after 1974, and most of these refugee camps were built on Turkish Cypriot land.

There are thousands of displaced Greek Cypriots living in Turkish Cypriot properties in the south, just as there are thousands of displaced Turkish Cypriots living in Greek Cypriot properties in the north ...

[Alexandros Lordos]

Well, I am going to be married next week!

I `ll be Ebru Mehmet Souvalian!

Congratulations!