Cyprus-Forum.com

[devil]

I was living in Cyprus in the 1950s and I think that our opinions are actually very close. The Brits obviously did not start the language division - TCs spoke Turkish, GCs spoke Greek long before the Brits arrived in

Cyprus.

Obviously! I worded it badly! The Brits exploited it!!!

They continued to do so all the time the Brits occupied Cyprus. Most of the time TC/GC neighbours got on with each other, if they were not actually the best of friends. There had long been a smallish minority of GCs that wanted enosis but even in the middle of the troubles, far fewer GCs wanted it than is taught in schools today. Witness the large number of GCs who were killed by EOKA to 'encourage' other GCs.

Agreed 100%

If GCs, encouraged by Grivas/Makarios, started killing Brits and TCs wouldn't it be only natural for them to become closer? I maintain that it was the GC leadership at the time who started the division, and Denktas and various GC leaders who have maintained it ever since.

I disagree there. The Brits started it but the GCs took full advantage of it when they saw what was happening. I agree about the maintenance.

I think that Talat offered a genuine hand of friendship when he replaced Denktas. It has repeatedly been rejected by Papadop, and no-one keeps his hand out forever.

Agreed

Shame really, because as you say,

Ethnically, the Turkish-speaking and Greek-speaking Cypriots are identical, as DNA tests have proved.

which I have never seen in print, but after all the claims of everyone raping everyone it seems a reasonable supposition.

I don't remember where I read it - it was a few years ago, possibly a magazine article. I'm not sure about the raping, though! As I remember it, both communities are mostly of Phoenician origin, with minor admixtures from the various invaders and relatively little from from either Greeks or Turks! After the 16th c. Ottoman invasion, most Turks returned home, leaving a very bare administration which was relatively conciliatory. They hired hundreds of Cypriots to do all the dirty work, such as collect taxes etc. These guys learned Turkish to communicate with their bosses (opportunism!!!) and that is how the majority of Turkish-speaking Cypriot families were started. Of course, there were some truly Turkish families as well, but they were small in number and it is probable their DNA has been spread across the population.

[Piratis]

In the early 1950s, if you asked a Cypriot his nationality, he would have been proud to say Cypriot, without epithets. Why did it change? We Brits drove a wedge in, around 1954, with their "divided, we stand" policy by recruiting Turkish-speaking Cypriots to quell the Enosis uprisings among students, that culminated in the EOKA stand-off (prisoners under Turkish-speaking guards), eventually resulting in independence under impossible conditions.

The UK started it all and has done nothing to repair the damage they caused - rather the opposite.

Rubbish! Makarios/Grivas started it by demanding union with Greece. Why would Turkish-Cypriots want to go from living in a British colony to living in a Greek colony, especially with (then) recent memories of the treatment of Turks in Crete, Thrace etc. As I have written elsewhere, if the GC leadership had demanded independence and invited the TC community to join them, it is likely today that Cyprus would be an independent united island.

The GC leadership seem to have a special gift for making enemies. Witness the irritation that their stance is now creating in the EU.

According to the " Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples - resolution 1514 (XV)":

"the subjection of peoples to alien subjugation, domination and exploitation constitutes a denial of fundamental human rights, is contrary to the United Nations Charter, and is an impediment to the promotion of world peace and cooperation, and that steps should be taken to transfer, unconditionally, all powers to the Trust and Non-Self-Governing Territories so that they might enjoy complete freedom and independence".

And in the resolution 1541 (XV): "the Assembly approved resolution 1541 (XV), defining free association with an independent State, integration into an independent State, or independence as the three legitimate options of full self-government."
http://daccessdds.un.org/doc/RESOLUTION ... penElement

There was nothing criminal with Cypriots demanding an end to colonialism and wanting to have their legitimate options available for doing so.

I would like to see what you would say if Cyprus population was 82% Turkish. Would the Turks accept anything else than Cyprus being part of Turkey? Definitely not. Kurdistan even has a Kurdish majority for 1000s of years and Turks still consider it part of Turkey!!!!!!

So don't give the "GCs started it" crap. GCs were under colonial rule and wanted liberation, thats about it. If you really want to go to the root of the conflict then you have to go to the time that Ottomans invaded and occupied our island and then oppressed us for 300 years. I guess it was OK when Cyprus, with 3500 years of Greek history and almost 100% (then) GC population was part of the Ottoman empire (and later the British), but being part of Greece is not OK even if this is what the great majority of Cypriots wanted?????

It is really funny when the Turks that have oppressed us, butchered us by the 1000s on several occasions, and violated our human rights for the 339 out of the last 435 years and they still continue to do so as we speak, are trying to blame GCs and accuse GCs that they "started it" because of the events of a decade were in fact even during that decade the British and the TCs are at least as much responsible for what happened as the GCs are.

Here I am again replying to the blame "who started it" game started by Observer. I would really prefer to leave the past behind and for once be allowed to have a truly independent Cyprus without any racist discriminations based on language or religion. But apparently the Turks want this game to continue as they want more excuses for yet more crimes against us as they did during most part of our common history on this island.

[devil]

I wonder who has the biggest pair of blinkers?

[Biker]

I wonder who has the biggest pair of blinkers?

Not you, your head's too far up your own arse for them to fit...

[skipper]

According to the " Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples - resolution 1514 (XV)":

"the subjection of peoples to alien subjugation, domination and exploitation constitutes a denial of fundamental human rights, is contrary to the United Nations Charter, and is an impediment to the promotion of world peace and cooperation, and that steps should be taken to transfer, unconditionally, all powers to the Trust and Non-Self-Governing Territories so that they might enjoy complete freedom and independence".

And in the resolution 1541 (XV): "the Assembly approved resolution 1541 (XV), defining free association with an independent State, integration into an independent State, or independence as the three legitimate options of full self-government."
http://daccessdds.un.org/doc/RESOLUTION ... penElement

Why do you keep on quoting this? It was passed by the General Assembly and as such is not binding on other members of the UN.

I would like to see what you would say if Cyprus population was 82% Turkish. Would the Turks accept anything else than Cyprus being part of Turkey? Definitely not. Kurdistan even has a Kurdish majority for 1000s of years and Turks still consider it part of Turkey!!!!!!

Maybe because legally it is part of Turkey? You know, legallity the thing you keep on going on and on about but choose to ignore when it suits you.

So don't give the "GCs started it" crap. GCs were under colonial rule and wanted liberation, thats about it. If you really want to go to the root of the conflict then you have to go to the time that Ottomans invaded and occupied our island and then oppressed us for 300 years. I guess it was OK when Cyprus, with 3500 years of Greek history and almost 100% (then) GC population was part of the Ottoman empire (and later the British), but being part of Greece is not OK even if this is what the great majority of Cypriots wanted?????

Again legally Cyprus was part of the UK and as such the UK was under no obligation to grant independance regardless of history, everything else is just politics and with regards to Cyprus the UK made a political descision based on their own self-interest which all countries do.

It is really funny when the Turks that have oppressed us, butchered us by the 1000s on several occasions, and violated our human rights for the 339 out of the last 435 years and they still continue to do so as we speak, are trying to blame GCs and accuse GCs that they "started it" because of the events of a decade were in fact even during that decade the British and the TCs are at least as much responsible for what happened as the GCs are.

What are you talking about? The Ottoman state oppressed you for 339 years. The British Empire oppressed you for the rest of the time. Turkish nationalism did n't exist in the time the Ottomans where in Cyprus, infact how much of the Ottoman empire was actually Turkish is debatable in itself. When the British came all inhabitants became British subjects, later we became Turkish Cypriots, Greek Cypriots and as such what you continually go on about when you talk about blame does n't make any sense.

How much are the TC's to blame? Depends since its a politcal matter, you could say 50/50.. but since you keep on going on about percentages I'ill say 18/82 in this case.

[Strahd]

Maybe because legally it is part of Turkey? You know, legallity the thing you keep on going on and on about but choose to ignore when it suits you.

look who is talking about legallity, the proud citizen of an illegal Turkish protectorate!!!! You are so funny!

[skipper]

Maybe because legally it is part of Turkey? You know, legallity the thing you keep on going on and on about but choose to ignore when it suits you.

look who is talking about legallity, the proud citizen of an illegal Turkish protectorate!!!! You are so funny!

Nice one, are you sure you put enough "lol"'s in there? you should have atleast ten, the more you put in the more intelligent you are, did n't you know...

You people are all the same, cant reply to a point but instead try and find ways to attack people personally, it's pathetic.

If you had read what I wrote (you can read cant you?) then you would understand what I was infering. I'ill give you another chance, this time maybe get an adult to help you.

[observer]

Oh humanist:

Observer shut the fuck up man ... you are such a separatist prick fuck you. leave those of us who genuinely want to see this people united get on with it.

Love, Peace & Respect is the answer

Can I be the only one to have spotted the incompatibility?