Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kikapu]

Klik, I have read it and it makes much more sense than partition. Soon, the north will be inhabited by more than one million inhabitants and the vast majority will be from Turkey. Any remaining Turkish Cypriots will contest their properties in the south and they will get it, along with an EU passport that will be used to take them as far away as possible. In the meantime, Turkey will probably access the north (since her EU aspirations are not being realised) and the Greek Cypriots will have a 200 km border with Turkey.

I would have to say, the chances of the above happening, is more probable than anything else, since there does not seem to be any real effort made to find a solution by Cypriots themselves.

Turkey on the border with ROC.? That will be a big pill to swallow by many Greek Cypriots, I'm sure. As you pointed out, AP would have been better than this outcome.

At least the ROC will get it's wish to have access to Turkish Ports in Turkey. Only, who would have thought, Famagusta would be a sea port, in Turkey.!!!!

[Pyrpolizer]

And what do you suggest Bananiot, us to pay for the mistakes of the TCs as well? This eventuality that will drive them all out of Cyprus is fully their mistake. On one hand they tell us Turkey does whatever they tell her, on the other hand they flooded them with settlers there and nobody says anything. Tell me one thing the TCs did right from 1974 until today. Man they even managed to convince them that 9 years after the Invasion they had to declare their own state because the GCs were intrangident!!! And everybody beleived that.

For someone to understand what the Anan Plan would really mean it is necessary to read the attachments to the main text of 182 pages. Those attachments were and until today ARE difficult to locate. They do exist however somewhere at the UN web site. For example the details about the roads and the police mentioned by Miltiades are NOT in the main text but in the numerous attachments....

[andri_cy]

Maybe we were done wrong maybe not, I guess what we need to decide is if we would rather lose everything for ever or try to somehow share it. I have not read the Ap in its whole and I don't know everything about it. I do know that if people like Miltiades were against it, it mustn't have been that darn good. But why aren't we coming up with a counter-proposal?

[Issy1956]

Pyrpolizer, Militiades,
Were there no GC's involved in drafting the Annan plan?. What were the people representing you at these long and detailed talks doing whilst the details of this hated plan was being hammered out. Drinking coffee and enjoying the scenery? Or could it be that your leaders were not acting in good faith and didnt really care what the shape of the plan was because they were going to reject it anyway-so what does it matter and in fact the worse it was the more logic for you to reject it as you were going to get into the EU anyway and thus use your new powers.
Are you saying that they were not negioating in good faith? Is this why the GC's have done absolutely nothing to try and revive talks and are relying on the EU to pressurise Turkey whilst still blocking all attempts to open the ports in the North of Cyprus to help the TC economy. Do you think that this and other actions of the GC admin like threatening to arrest TC living in GC houses is helping to create an atmosphere of reconciliation?
I think that our friend Bananiot has got it exactly right and that your leaders are leading us to a permanent division and the net result will be that the GC's will have succeeded in driving off all the TC's off the island (after all there are probably more of us here in London than in Cyprus) but unfortunately for you we will have been replaced by a million Turks from Anatolia who will be there as a permanent reminder of your follies.
Truly a Greek tradegy for some -poetic justice to others.

[Bananiot]

And, after 10 or 20 years, when the Anatolian Turks reach a couple of million, would there be a need for vital space? Of course, we can sleep tight, Pyrpolyser and Piratis and all the patriots of this forum will shed their blood to protect us. Some think that the EU will protect us. Yet another lie, like the one spread by Papadopoulos in April 2004. "Why say YES, he asked the Greek Cypriots, when in a weeks time we will be full members of the EU and we can achieve a much better solution, a European Union solution"?

[Viewpoint]

Issy the negotiations and many of the chapters there in the Annan plan were based on foundations submitted by the GC side they attended meetings just as the TCs did and the UN and EU intermediaries, so they have no excuse for saying they had nothing to do with the final result.
The GC are trying to absolve themselves of why they said no, making excuses but putting nothing concrete forward to amend areas in the plan which they felt were not acceptable. The whole plan which the international community endorsed cant be all bad they have just demonised it to make themselves feel better about the current stalemate.
The GC perspective was to come up with the worst plan so that it could be rejected knowing full well that they were going into the EU which they thought would bring them a better deal. The EU made the error to allow them in prior to finding a solution and should have ensured that they negotiated in good faith so they could say yes a united island would have entered the EU. Now and over the coming years this thorny Cyprus issue will continue to dog the EU to an extent where they will like the UN out it on the back burner with no real effort to solve issues. We can all see the signs today with the ports issue and the EU saying this is a problem the UN to solve....

[Issy1956]

Bananiot,
What is not appreciated by a lot of the "patriots" is that Turkeys EU bid is likely to fail for reasons other than Cyprus ( with Cyprus being a convenient excuse) and when this happens where will this leave them with their veto and European solution. Absolutely nowhere. Not one Turkish soldier or settler sent home and more GC land under concrete than ever and Turkey even less willing to compromise. Is this better than the Annan plan? I dont think so but its what your people, deceived by your leaders, voted for.

[DT.]

Firstly VP read the appendices on the plan and you will see that all deposits in Turkish lira would be exchanged.

Secondly I'm glad VP has admited the plan was horrible for us (even though he made it clear it was made this bad on purpose so we could reject it.)

Thirdly we did have the GC negotiating team hwoever just before the adjudication of the plan by the secretary general Turkey placed a memo of a coupld of dozen points that needed to be agreed and ANnan basically agreed all of them. Simple as that. The treaty of gaurantee where turkey could interven at any time in the future to save the TC's from the EU is still there and reinforced. I will just stick to that point, when the ROC is dismantled and two statelets are created in its place, with distinct separation (greek flags and turkish flags) and a right of intervention is given to turkey then what stops them from achieving what they want right now. A recognised statelet in cyprus.

And being just another statelet we would no longer have any legal arguments to place regarding another invasion or partition. Because this time they would have done so with our full agreement and signature.

This is hte first point i didn't agree with, next chapter is dedicated to the release of land plan.

[Pyrpolizer]

Issy1956,

So you are telling me the Gcs who waited for a solution for 30 years were so naive as to reject the Anan Plan not because it was really bad but because they thought their EU accession would bring them something much better.
That’s a fallacy!
This was true for just a handful of people. You cannot generalise it.

You wonder how the Anan Plan came in the picture, without presumably containing any of the demands of the GCs. You have to remember the Anan Plan was the result of unilatteral arbitration. Each and every minimal, and non signifigant demand of the GCs, was countered by a maximalistic and signifigant demand of the TC+Turkish side.
So the statement that the Anan Plan did not contain any demands of the GC side is not true. It did contain minimal and non signifigant demands of the GCs, counterweighted by maximalistic and important demands of the TC+Turkish side.

You also wonder what our leaders were doing at the negotiations in Brungenstock-drinking coffee and trying to turn the Plan as worse as possible to have excuses to reject it later?
Have you ever been at a footbal match dear Issy where the referee would whistle a foul at each and every effort of your team to score, and a penalty at each and every effort of the opponent to score? This is what happened in Burgenstock. And yes at the end our side resigned from all effort.

In my opinion they should have exposed both De-Soto and the UN publicly after that and refuse to even let the Plan go to referendum. Somehow they thought it would be better to stay silent…

@ Andri_cy,

Had we accepted the Anan Plan we would not share anything, we would lose the remaing half that we now have. As for the matter of settlers staying, the Plan said 45,000 including their children, Talat submitted a list of 40,000 WITHOUT their children and even bosed he sumbitted less that what the plan said. Moreover there was no effective mechanism in the Anan Plan to enforce the leaving of ANY settler.
As for the properties and return of refugees the Plan was really a joke.

@Bananiot,

I admire the way you manipulate the TCs into beleiving you. People like you will be very successful in case we ever have a solution in getting votes from the TCs. Keep up the practice.

[andri_cy]

Pyrpolizer, like I said I did not read it in its whole. I will take your word for it.