Cyprus-Forum.com

[zan]

Greek Question
The history of Turco-Greek relations is one of conflict. The cause of this conflict must be sought in a number of factors-geographical, religious, ethnic and above all, historical. Geographically, both Turkiye and Greece are contiguous, with a common land frontier in Thrace (Trakya). Some of the Greek islands in the Aegean are just a few miles from the Turkish mainland. This contiguity has caused numerous frontier disputes and other incidents between the two states, culminating in the present conflict over the Aegean Sea and the island of Cyprus.

Ethnically, the Turks and the Greeks belong to different races and religions, the former being Muslim and the latter Orthodox Christian. They also have different cultures. The Turks have been reconciled to the loss of their (Ottoman) empire, and under the wise guidance of Kemal Ataturk, have relinquished their expansionist ambitions. The Greeks, however, enthralled by the reputation of ancient Greece (Hellas), have been bedevilled by notions of self-aggrandisement, often at the expense of their neighbours. Even the skilful Cretan politician, Eleutherios Venizelos, did not succeed, as Ataturk did in Turkiye, in saving Greece from this obsession of striving recklessly for territorial expansion rather than greatness in the sense of unity, territorial integrity, development and progress within its national boundaries.

Until recently, Greece was a monarchy based on a peasant economy, augmented by tourism, with the Orthodox Church pervading every aspect of Greek life, including the political sphere. Dictators have come and gone, but the social sub-stratum of Greece did not undergo much change despite the German occupation during the World War II. Turkiye, however, waged a war of liberation, followed by a social revolution, which completely eradicated the ancient regime and introduced laicism, a new order based on the secularisation of the state. Moreover, Turkiye has a more extensive land area, much larger population, with greater resources and better scope for development.

Historically, the two countries have frequently been at loggerheads, mainly because Greece, before 1830, was part of the Ottoman Empire and had to stage a long, bitter and bloody struggle in order to gain its independence. Once independent, Greece continued its self-aggrandisement by adopting an expansionist, irredentist policy, mainly at the expense of Turkiye. In the words of the Greek scholar Gerasimos Augustinos, "The ethnic, expansionist, and revivalist nationalist movement of the Greeks had not been able to surmount the political discord (dichasmos) of the country. Weakened by this, and without the united support of Western powers, it failed before the rival ethnic and integrationist nationalist Turkish movement. While the Greeks had looked to the past in formulating their nationalist ideal, the Turks broke with the past and based their movement on the present, in terms of ethnicity and territorial unity. Although both movements were aggressive, that of the Greeks was expansionist and tended unwittingly to the growth of a multi-ethnic state, while that of the Turks was exactly the opposite, contractive and ethnically unified.

There are several issues of conflict between the two countries which, by themselves, are far from insoluble. The main stumbling block in reaching compromises in all of the areas seems to be the Turkish hatred ingrained in Greek psyche and nurtured by successive political and religious policy makers since their independence in late 1800s. In contrast, Greek presence in the Aegean has always been a non-event for the Turkish people who consider Greek noises more of an annoyance than anything else-a fly in the soup-.

In stark contrast to Greeks, Turkish side does not perpetrate hatred for Greeks in their education system, media, arts, film industry or religion. The Turkish people realise the extent of the Greek antagonism only when they travel overseas to Western countries where they experience their organised and well funded misinformation campaigns.

http://www.atmg.org/GreekProblem.html#Cyprus

[Kartal_Aetos]

wheres the question???

[alexISS]

There's no question. Zan has a new hobby, copying and pasting anti-Greek propaganda.
Turkiye? Isn't it Turkey?

The following, however, is not propaganda, it's the reality of the two countries:

some data from the CIA world factbook...

Turkey:
Infant mortality rate:
total: 39.69 deaths/1,000 live births
male: 43.27 deaths/1,000 live births
female: 35.93 deaths/1,000 live births (2006 est.)

Life expectancy at birth:
total population: 72.62 years
male: 70.18 years
female: 75.18 years (2006 est.)

Literacy:
definition: age 15 and over can read and write
total population: 86.5%
male: 94.3%
female: 78.7% (2003 est.)

GDP - per capita (PPP):
$8,400 (2005 est.)

Population below poverty line:
20% (2002)

Greece:
Infant mortality rate:
total: 5.43 deaths/1,000 live births
male: 5.97 deaths/1,000 live births
female: 4.86 deaths/1,000 live births (2006 est.)

Life expectancy at birth:
total population: 79.24 years
male: 76.72 years
female: 81.91 years (2006 est.)

Literacy:
definition: age 15 and over can read and write
total population: 97.5%
male: 98.6%
female: 96.5% (2003 est.)

GDP - per capita (PPP):
$22,300 (2005 est.)

Population below poverty line:
NA%

[Klik]

There's no question. Zan has a new hobby, copying and pasting anti-Greek propaganda.
Turkiye? Isn't it Turkey?

The following, however, is not propaganda, it's the reality of the two countries:

some data from the CIA world factbook...

Turkey:
Infant mortality rate:
total: 39.69 deaths/1,000 live births
male: 43.27 deaths/1,000 live births
female: 35.93 deaths/1,000 live births (2006 est.)

Life expectancy at birth:
total population: 72.62 years
male: 70.18 years
female: 75.18 years (2006 est.)

Literacy:
definition: age 15 and over can read and write
total population: 86.5%
male: 94.3%
female: 78.7% (2003 est.)

GDP - per capita (PPP):
$8,400 (2005 est.)

Population below poverty line:
20% (2002)

Greece:
Infant mortality rate:
total: 5.43 deaths/1,000 live births
male: 5.97 deaths/1,000 live births
female: 4.86 deaths/1,000 live births (2006 est.)

Life expectancy at birth:
total population: 79.24 years
male: 76.72 years
female: 81.91 years (2006 est.)

Literacy:
definition: age 15 and over can read and write
total population: 97.5%
male: 98.6%
female: 96.5% (2003 est.)

GDP - per capita (PPP):
$22,300 (2005 est.)

Population below poverty line:
NA%

Haha
The answer to any question

[alexISS]

From the Economist:
http://www.economist.com/media/pdf/DEMO ... 007_v3.pdf

While Greece is considered a "full democracy", Turkey is one of the "hybrid regimes" of the world
.
.
.
Forget about Greece zan, your country has much bigger problems.

[zan]

From the Economist:
http://www.economist.com/media/pdf/DEMO ... 007_v3.pdf

While Greece is considered a "full democracy", Turkey is one of the "hubrid regimes" of the world
.
.
.
Forget about Greece zan, your country has much bigger problems

Did not say it hasn't. It is you guys that want the world to think we are worse than we are

Anyways...... those figures you gave ....are they inclusive of the Greeks using the taxes from prostitution to boost the economy because they failed to do so otherwise. How many of the other figures have had Greek myths added to them???????

[alexISS]

Did not say it hasn't. It is you guys that want the world to think we are worse than we are

Hey, I didn't quote a propaganda site like you do all the time, it's from the world factbook!

Anyways...... those figures you gave ....are they inclusive of the Greeks using the taxes from prostitution to boost the economy because they failed to do so otherwise.

You mean like Italy and many other EU countries do? No, the 2007 figures may include them, although it's not taxes, it's the black market profit which, although illegal, does indeed boost the economy. "failed to do so otherwise"??? the only "flaw" of the Greek ecomomy was the deficit, which was above the 3% limit set by the EU. It has already dropped to 2.7% while countries like Germany are still above 3%. Get your facts straight and do your homework (since this is the kind of homework you chose to do)

How many of the other figures have had Greek myths added to them???????

Uhm... once again, these figures are from the CIA world factbook, you still can't accept the simple truth

[andri_cy]

I am sure that there are no prostitutes in Turkey at all
I know it is hard for you to accept but Greece is in a better place than Turkey, even though I have no idea why we are even going there, as this has little to do with Cyprus...

[Kartal_Aetos]

i agree with andrie....we are neither from greece nor turkey....why are we arguing about them? lol

besides, these are figures drawn from consensus which automatically bring up doubts over their credibility...lets not forget that in no country are consensus figures including ALL of the population...every country has whats called a 'hidden population'

[zan]

I am sure that there are no prostitutes in Turkey at all
I know it is hard for you to accept but Greece is in a better place than Turkey, even though I have no idea why we are even going there, as this has little to do with Cyprus...

Have you lived in both countries to make that statement?