Cyprus-Forum.com

[andri_cy]

lol rwak you are so silly

[BirKibrisli]

Welcome to the forum,Murataga...

It is refreshing to see that you can hold Partitionist views,but do not see the need to insult people to get your points across.

So do you really believe that we can make a good go of the TRNC forever,given we know the GCs will never recognise it,and nor will anybody else in the world? Are you prepard to make any effort at all to dismantle the bitterness and hatred which exist today as the result of the "Peace Operation"?

And do you blame those who say that since you are obviously comfortable with living with spoils of war,only another war will restore some justice and dignity to our situation???

Finally,if you are comfortable with the status quo,why do you see the need to participate in this forum,which aims to improve understanding,respect and trust between the two communities?

[Sotos]

Barbarian was originally a Greek term applied to any foreigner, one not sharing a recognized culture or degree of polish with the speaker or writer employing the term. The word expressed with mocking duplication ("bar-bar") alleged attempts by outsiders to speak a "real" language. A "barbarism" in language, especially Greek or Latin, is a misformed word, such as a solecism or a malapropism. Related terms are barbaric and barbarous.

So Turks = Barbarians Turks had an empire imposed by the sword. Greeks a civilization of great sciences, arts and philosophy.

[BirKibrisli]

Words like Barbarian and Kafir originally were neutral terms to describe strangers and unbelievers respectively. Over time and through historical animosity they became derogotary terms of abuse.Civilised and well mannered people refrain from using them.

[bg_turk]

Words like Barbarian and Kafir originally were neutral terms to describe strangers and unbelievers respectively. Over time and through historical animosity they became derogotary terms of abuse.Civilised and well mannered people refrain from using them.

Birkibrisli, what kind of a Turk you are? How can you remain so calm at this blatant provocation? Stop slacking and agreeing with everything Piratis and Sotiris and their likes say, for once be a real Turk, feel the Mongolian blood boiling in your veins, accept Kemalism, embrace Turanism, cry out that you want Cyprus to be Turkish. Unleash this innate anger and hatred. Show them the true barbaric nature of the Turk.

[Piratis]

Birkibrisli, what kind of a Turk you are? How can you remain so calm at this blatant provocation? Stop slacking and agreeing with everything Piratis and Sotiris and their likes say, for once be a real Turk, feel the Mongolian blood boiling in your veins, accept Kemalism, embrace Turanism, cry out that you want Cyprus to be Turkish. Unleash this innate anger and hatred. Show them the true barbaric nature of the Turk.

Birkibrisli, is the exception that proves the rule

I talked about "barbaric Turkish invasion". I don't think an invasion that resulted in the deaths of 6000 people, the ethnic cleansing of 200.000 people, and performed rapes and other atrocities can be called anything else.

Unfortunately the Turks have not improved much since the middle ages, since their military leadership does not allow for civilization, democracy and human rights to develop in that country.

[bg_turk]

Piratis, I told you to stop barking already. This is a think between a Turk and another Turk, so do not interfere.

[Piratis]

And I told you to stop your "bar-bar"

[Murataga]

Let me begin by giving a definition: by "self autonomy" I refer to a one that can "also" exist in a state of loose federation.

Hello BirKibrisli. You mention "...do not see the need to insult people to get your points across". I was making reference to Greeks seeking independence from the Ottomans and expressing my "respect" to their effort when Piratis argued about this historical fact. The seeking of autonomy for Turkish Cypriots shall be respected aswell. This was simply my point. I do not understand how this is insulting?

You have further asked: "So do you really believe that we can make a good go of the TRNC forever,given we know the GCs will never recognise it, and nor will anybody else in the world?"

Certainly the situation of the TRNC is not as Turks fully want it. Therefore I have stated my belief that Turkey and TRNC is willing to make compromises (as should the other side). However, these compromises shall not and can not include the right of secure living and self autonomy. In accordance with this arguement I have asserted that the Turkish Army will gladly and immediately reduce its military presence and that a rearrangement of land distribution may be discussed along with other aspects once a settlement between the two sides that secure the lives and the self-administration rights of the Turkish Cypriots is made. However, the fate of the Turkish Cypriots can not be returned to the conditions before the Peace Operation in 1974 simply because we feel sad that the Greeks or the rest of the world is unwilling to recognize TRNC.

You ask: "Are you prepard to make any effort at all to dismantle the bitterness and hatred which exist today as the result of the "Peace Operation"? "

I am prepared to make any and all efforts to dismantle any bitterness and hatred as a result of the Peace Operation if the Greeks are prepared to do the same for the attrocities committed by the Greek National Guard, EOKA, the junta, Nicos Sampson, Makarios and the the murders and mass graves that resulted from their actions. As with any military intervention that has taken place in history, the Cyprus Peace Operation of 1974 had its unfortunate and inevidable flaws during the 30 days which it was carried out. However, I reiterate: the Turkish troops have invaded Cyprus to secure the lives of the Turkish Cypriots and has been continually and successfully doing so since 1974. This was the undisputed and real objective of the Operation. I am sorry for all that has gone wrong during this invasion but the fact is that they have brought an end to the inter communal violence that had been going on before they arrived. All should recognize the fact:
No more mass graves or murders of innocent civilians from both sides since 1974! Should Turkey have left its fellow people to be slaughtered like chickens beacuse the Greeks or the rest of the world felt that a military intervention was unneccessary or that it would reduce Turkey`s popularity in the international arena? Should the troops have packed their gears up and left like nothing happened when the other side was pressuring to return things to the state which led to the clash of the two socities? You make it sound like that all was going well in Cyprus and the Operation was carried out as an extracurricular activity and the Army should be ashamed for having rescued its people from slaughter... You speak of the "bitterness and hatred which exist today as the result of the "Peace Operation"? "... Than I ask you: How about the bitterness and hatred of the Turkish Cypriots that were brought to the brink of extinction in mass graves? Tell the relatives of the murdered Turkish Cypriots laying in the mass graves in MURATAGA about the bitterness and hatred which exist today as the result of the Operation... This is not a popularity contest that we are talking about!

You asked: "And do you blame those who say that since you are obviously comfortable with living with spoils of war,only another war will restore some justice and dignity to our situation??? "

I again state my belief that neither Turkey or TRNC is "comfortable" with the current situation. The Turkish Army did not carry out the Operation for a couple of old buildings and hotels left by the Greek inhabitants which you can claim is at most what the spoils of the Peace Operation may be... Furthermore, neither Turkey or its armed forces have one day claimed that they are in Cyprus to own the land or that they are permanent in the island. Had their intention been ethnic cleansing or expansion of land they would have invaded the whole of the island and the only flag on the skies of Cyprus today wouls have been the one of the Republic of Turkey. An believe me it would not have been much of an hassle given the circumstances in 1974. The fact is that the military intervention of Turkey has successfully met the objective of securing the lives of th Turkish Cypriots and stopping the bloodshed caused by the inter communal violence until both sides agree on something. People may not like this but they can not argue about it either. It is a simple statistical and scientific fact: no more blood shed since 1974, period! I believe Turkey and TRNC is prepared for compensating Greeks for their property once the principle of the Turkish Cypriots`self autonomy and security is respected.

Finally you ask: "Finally,if you are comfortable with the status quo,why do you see the need to participate in this forum,which aims to improve understanding,respect and trust between the two communities?"

I never said I was happy with the status quo. However, if the alternative of the status quo is going back to the situation in 1963 which led to the inter communal violence, than we shall stick to it no matter how unpopular it may be viewed by the rest of the world. I have joined the forum to defend my view in this regard.

Everyone understands that the solution of the Cyprus problem is difficiult but not everyone understands that there is no solution to the problem as long as either of the socieites is "forced" to live under the administration of the other. What the both sides agreed in 1960 was subject to change by Makarios in 1963; perhaps he was right in not wanting to give so much administrative rights to the Turks. This change was refused by the Turks and resulted in their departing from the administration; perhaps the Turks were right in not accepting the amount of administrative powers made available to them after Makarios`s revison... In any case the situation reduces to what I have been trying to explain from the begining:

Turkish and Greek Cypriots can live in harmony and peace as each other`s "neighbours", but not as each other`s "administrators".

Any and all solutions that seek to be sustainable in Cyprus shall strictly be built around this principle.

[Murataga]

bg_turk: your looser remarks towards BirKibrisli put all Turks in a very difficult and embarassing situation. I hope that the people on this forum do not judge us by your pubescent remarks.