Cyprus-Forum.com

[Murataga]

Piratis, you mentioned that:

"You forgot a "small detail". Greece belonged to Greeks. The Ottomans were just the foreign rulers. "

Greece did not belong to Greeks for more than 400 years, it belonged to the Ottomans, make no mistake about that. It was a province of the Ottoman Empire where inhabitants of the Empire lived from all parts of the Empire. You could argue that there were many Greek originated Ottomans during this period on this land but nevertheless it was Ottoman rule, Ottoman land and Ottoman citizens that were the owners of what is today Greece for more than 400 years.

You also write: "The north part of Cyprus does not belong to the TCs exclusively. Northern Cyprus is the homeland of 200.000 GCs and just 50.000 TCs"

I respectfully agree with the idea but not the numbers. The numbers you present for the Greek inhabitants of the TRNC is inflated and can be disputed very easily. You should not forget that there were Turks in the south aswell. However, it is not my intention to get into to such a spiral of discussion as we both can show numbers from different sources indicating varying numbers. Tuskish side and the Greek side of Cyprus have exchanged inhabitants as the Republics of Turkey and Greece has in the past after they were established. Unfortunately the nature of this exhange was arguably more painful for the case of Cyprus compared to the latter. Hoever, it is through this seperation that the blood shed in the island and the formation of other mass graves have been stopped since 1974. You may not like the Turkish troops on the island but you can not dispute the fact that they have brought end to the inter communal violence that had been going on before they arrived, hence rightfully called the Cyprus Peace Force.

Again I would like to underscore my intention of bringing this issue up which was to acknowledge that the Turkish and Greek Cypriots can live in harmony and peace as each other`s "neighbours", but not as each other`s "administrators". Rearrangement of land distribution, reduction of Turkish troops on the island and issues of similar sort can all be dealt with more effectively once both sides recognize the importance of partition or a very loose confederation that serves similar purposes.

Finally, you asked: "By the way, what is your opinion about solving the conflict between Turks and the Kurdish minority?"

Let me assure you that the the circumstances of the Kurdish issue is "very" different than the one in Cyprus. I would love to discuss this matter with you but I do not believe that this forum is established for that purpose.

[zan]

Murataga
Welcome to the forum


Get ready for a numbers war with Piratis......

[bg_turk]

Murataga, welcome to the forum. Nice to have you here.

[Piratis]

Greece did not belong to Greeks for more than 400 years, it belonged to the Ottomans, make no mistake about that. It was a province of the Ottoman Empire where inhabitants of the Empire lived from all parts of the Empire. You could argue that there were many Greek originated Ottomans during this period on this land but nevertheless it was Ottoman rule, Ottoman land and Ottoman citizens that were the owners of what is today Greece for more than 400 years.

They were the foreign rulers that imposed their rule over the Greeks and many other nations. Fortunately most of those nations are today liberated.

I respectfully agree with the idea but not the numbers. The numbers you present for the Greek inhabitants of the TRNC is inflated and can be disputed very easily.

The numbers of Greek and Turkish Cypriots that lived in all parts of the island can be verified from the British records for until 1960. Beyond that you can dispute anything you want but it will not change the facts.

Tuskish side and the Greek side of Cyprus have exchanged inhabitants as the Republics of Turkey and Greece has in the past after they were established.

Greek Cypriots were forced to abandon their properties at gun point.

You may not like the Turkish troops on the island but you can not dispute the fact that they have brought end to the inter communal violence that had been going on before they arrived, hence rightfully called the Cyprus Peace Force.

It is called an occupation force by all except the Turks.
Question: If all Turks are killed or ethnically cleansed and send back to Mongolia in an operation, can we then call that operation a "peace operation" since the Turks will no longer be around to perform atrocities against Cypriots, Kurds, Armenians etc? It is something that can finally bring peace to our region. What do you think? I hope you understand how silly it is calling the barbaric Turkish invasion that killed 6000 people and ethnically cleansed 200.000 as a "peace operation".

[Murataga]

Piratis: "They were the foreign rulers that imposed their rule over the Greeks and many other nations. Fortunately most of those nations are today liberated. "

The discussion of who ruled who many centuries ago should be evaluated within the context of the times which they occured. Empires waged war with each other for land and wealth. Greeks have done this aswell. Some succeeded, and some did not at different times. Byzantines have not succeeded in war against the Ottomans; nothing more, nothing less. I am not a supporter of invasion for land and power and glad that this era is behind us. Nevertheless, this does not change the fact that Greece did not belong to Greeks for more than 400 years, it belonged to the Ottomans, make no mistake about that.

You mentioned that: "The numbers of Greek and Turkish Cypriots that lived in all parts of the island can be verified from the British records for until 1960. Beyond that you can dispute anything you want but it will not change the facts. "

I taught I had made it clear that I will not get into a discussion of what number from which source is correct. When have you and I agreed that "British records" give the "undisputed" numbers for the island?

You stated that: "Greek Cypriots were forced to abandon their properties at gun point. "

I partly agree with this statement and am deeply sorry that it had to be like this. However, the pain and suffering of the Turkish Cypriots on the island due to inter communal violence was no less by any means. Dislocation of people in an island smaller than many Greek or Turkish cities is certainly a small price to pay to stop the formation of any further mass graves.

You state that: "It is called an occupation force by all except the Turks. "

Any one in the world can call it anything they want. The undisputed fact stands: "they have brought an end to the inter communal violence that had been going on before they arrived". No more mass graves or murders of innocent civilians from both sides since 1974. I say that is not bad even for an "occupation force", as you would like to call it.

You state: " If all Turks are killed or ethnically cleansed and send back to Mongolia in an operation, can we then call that operation a "peace operation" since the Turks will no longer be around to perform atrocities against Cypriots, Kurds, Armenians etc? It is something that can finally bring peace to our region. What do you think?"

What you are suggesting is certainly not analogous to what I am suggesting for the case of Cyprus. I am and surely others who read your statement will realize that you are getting carried away. I will refuse to carry on the discussion should you continue to make outbursts of such sort.

You have finally stated that: "I hope you understand how silly it is calling the barbaric Turkish invasion that killed 6000 people and ethnically cleansed 200.000 as a "peace operation"."

Yet again you mention numbers... The faith of the Turks can not and should not be left to the hands of the Greek majority. This has proven to be lethal time and time again. The Turkish troops have invaded Cyprus to secure the lives of the Turksih Cypriots and has been continually and successfully doing so since 1974. Had their intention been ethnic cleansing or expansion of land they would have invaded the whole of the island. An believe me it would not have been much of an hassle given the circumstances in 1974. I or no one else can deny that individual wrongdoings of soldiers may have taken place during the invasion. Such individuals are a shame to our people and the Turkish Army and I hope have been/will be punished for their crimes. However, this does not allow anyone to manipulate the main objective of the invasion: secure the lives of the Turkish Cypriots and grant them self-administration rights. I am only proud that both of these objectives have been accomplished. The Turkish Army will gladly and immediately reduce its troops once a settlement between the two sides that secure the lives and the self-administration rights of the Turkish Cypriots is made.

p.s. I am new to the forum, hence would like to ask any one who can answer: Piratis has used the word "barbaric" to impose insult. Are the use of such words to insult the other side permitted on the forum? Any way I strongly protest such insults through pubescent outbursts and hope that he will not repeat them in the future.

[zan]

Murataga
If you click on the profile button at the bottom of Piratis' post and then click on the "Find all posts" button on the next page, you will save your self a lot of time and you will get associated with the way he writes and what he says. In essence the one post you have already read will just about cover his attitude towards the TCs and that it is the same statement over and over again, but still it is worth a look. Don't lose hope though because he has been proved to be wanting on all aspects but still he goes on.

[rawk]

Is there a Delete button as well? Could be useful....

Oh, I'm only joking Piratis! Down Boy!

Rawk

[MR-from-NG]

piratis= deja vu

[andri_cy]

Is this a team tag where u finally get to make Piratis angry, he will say something you can use against him and then tell us how we cant reunify because of people like him? What about the ones poking him?

[rawk]

Is this a team tag where u finally get to make Piratis angry, he will say something you can use against him and then tell us how we cant reunify because of people like him? What about the ones poking him?

Poking him?

Is Piratis some sort of Gay Icon in the US?

Have you finally spilt the beans, Andri_Cy?

Come on, tell us more!

Rawk