Cyprus-Forum.com

[Strahd]

Bir no one is taking into account the return of GCs (ROR) into the north state, lets say there are 1,000,000
population 180,000 TCs and 820,000 GCs as our friends suggest, then a swing of 50,000 to 100,000+ GCs exercising their ROR to the north will support a north state of between 23% to 28%, surely this not being unrealistic.

No it is realistic and it is because Turkish Cypriots are a minority, in a democratic environment a minority has by definition less power than the majority. So it would be easy for your TC state to be overrun by Greeks in no time and have both states with Greek administration. what would you do then? Attila III?

[Piratis]

If I know Viewpoint,he'll never trust that GC motivation is anything but to push all the TCs into 18% of the island and call that the permanent solution,or Partition if you like. How are you going to convince him your intentions are otherwise?

Viewpoint WANTS partition Bir! So WE are the ones who have justified fears that they will take that 29% and then partition the island with their Serbia-Montenegro models that they have told us many times about.

Please read what Viewpoint himself wrote in this thread:

You seem to think I am asking for another country, if that were the case I would accept 18%.

So please don't tell me that Viewpoint has a fear of partition.

[BirKibrisli]

Bir no one is taking into account the return of GCs (ROR) into the north state, lets say there are 1,000,000
population 180,000 TCs and 820,000 GCs as our friends suggest, then a swing of 50,000 to 100,000+ GCs exercising their ROR to the north will support a north state of between 23% to 28%, surely this not being unrealistic.

I agree Viewpoint.Given the reality, a good place to start would be about 25%.Even I cannot expect you to start lower than that...I know what a difficult decision (dare I say a sacrifice) it was for you to accept the possibility of leaving the security of the TRNC for a United democratic Cyprus. I am sorry others cannot see it that way...
So for a mere 7% dispute over the land size to start with,we are risking the possibility of ever achieving our final aim...It doesn't seem fair.

[Piratis]

If you think I am asking for too much for asking that one thing (!!!) lets reverse it: We have the BBF the way I understand it, the power sharing they way I think is correct, the security issues dealt the way I believe is right etc, and in return you get one thing, the land distribution with 29% that you want. Would you accept that?

Piratis,if you are upto another exercise,I'd love to know very briefly the way you understand the BBF,the power sharing,and the security issues etc...Feel free to tell me to piss off,as it is 2.09 am Wednesday here,and I'd love to go to sleep...

Bir, to put it very briefly, I would do it just like USA is, just instead of 52 states to have 2. Unlike some others in here, I am not trying to create something that would suit my needs perfectly and screw the others. I would just adopt the model of the most known federation in the world.

[Murataga]

I present my greetings and respect to all in this forum as a person writing here for the first time.

I for one am strictly opposed to the unification of the island and see partition or a very loose confederative system as the only peaceful solution. It is an undisputed fact that there exists two distinct socities on the island with different language, religion, culture, history and ethnicity. Forcing one to live under the rule of the other will bring nothing but chaos and blood shed. History has proven this time and time again. Furthermore, recent and current conflicts in Bosnia, Iraq and etc. has shown that a peaceful solution in cases of this sort lies in partition and allowing distinct societies to live under their self-selected administration.

Being good neighbors is one thing but being forced to live under a neighbour`s rule is another (the independence war of of Greeks from the Ottomans). The Greeks made up much less than the percent of the population in the Ottoman Empire than the Turks make up in the population of Cyprus today, i.e. Greeks were a much smaller minority. As a Turk, altough I do not like it I still respect the Greek efforts to gain their independence from the Ottomans and hope that they will show the same respect to those Turks seeking independence from the rule of the Greek majority in Cyprus.

Rearrangement of land distribution, reduction of Turkish troops on the island and issues of similar sort can all be dealt with more effectively once both sides recognize the importance of partition or a very loose confederation that serves similar purposes.

I strongly believe that the Turkish and Greek Cypriots can live in harmony and peace as each other`s "neighbours", but not as each other`s "administrators".

[BirKibrisli]

If you think I am asking for too much for asking that one thing (!!!) lets reverse it: We have the BBF the way I understand it, the power sharing they way I think is correct, the security issues dealt the way I believe is right etc, and in return you get one thing, the land distribution with 29% that you want. Would you accept that?

Piratis,if you are upto another exercise,I'd love to know very briefly the way you understand the BBF,the power sharing,and the security issues etc...Feel free to tell me to piss off,as it is 2.09 am Wednesday here,and I'd love to go to sleep...

Bir, to put it very briefly, I would do it just like USA is, just instead of 52 states to have 2. Unlike some others in here, I am not trying to create something that would suit my needs perfectly and screw the others. I would just adopt the model of the most known federation in the world.

Thanks,Piratis.
I'll sleep on this and get back to you tomorrow.
Goodnight all...

[Piratis]

So for a mere 7% dispute over the land size to start with,we are risking the possibility of ever achieving our final aim...It doesn't seem fair.

Bir, the reason is very simple: If we accept the power sharing, the BBF etc, in the way that Viewpoints demands it, we would in effect have a disguised partition with a very real possibility of everything colapsing and having a real-partition in a few years time. Therefore land distribution is everything in this case.

If you want to leave land distribution as demanded by viewpoint, then we would have to change everything else in order to have as a result true viable unification, without the risk of having the Turks running off with 29% of Cyprus. I hope it is clear

[Piratis]

Being good neighbors is one thing but being forced to live under a neighbour`s rule is another (the independence war of of Greeks from the Ottomans). The Greeks made up much less than the percent of the population in the Ottoman Empire than the Turks make up in the population of Cyprus today, i.e. Greeks were a much smaller minority. As a Turk, altough I do not like it I still respect the Greek efforts to gain their independence from the Ottomans and hope that they will show the same respect to those Turks seeking independence from the rule of the Greek majority in Cyprus.

You forgot a "small detail". Greece belonged to Greeks. The Ottomans were just the foreign rulers.
The north part of Cyprus does not belong to the TCs exclusively. Northern Cyprus is the homeland of 200.000 GCs and just 50.000 TCs, not to mention that GCs have a history there of 3500 years, while TCs less than 500.

By the way, what is your opinion about solving the conflict between Turks and the Kurdish minority? Just like the Greeks under the Ottomans (and unlike TCs today) the Kurds have lived historically in the area called Kurdistan, even before the Turks came there.

[Piratis]

Bir no one is taking into account the return of GCs (ROR) into the north state, lets say there are 1,000,000
population 180,000 TCs and 820,000 GCs as our friends suggest, then a swing of 50,000 to 100,000+ GCs exercising their ROR to the north will support a north state of between 23% to 28%, surely this not being unrealistic.

?? And if the "North State" was 70% it could have about 70% of the population living in it. So what? You can do that kind of calculation with any %.

The question is why the 18% of TCs should administer an area of 29%? The north state can be 18% with about 18% of the population in it. It doesn't mean all its population will be TCs, it could be say 100.000 TCs, 40.000 GCs and the rest your settlers. Then 40.000 TCs could live in the south state as well. No problem, unless you are planing for partition.

[zan]

Being good neighbors is one thing but being forced to live under a neighbour`s rule is another (the independence war of of Greeks from the Ottomans). The Greeks made up much less than the percent of the population in the Ottoman Empire than the Turks make up in the population of Cyprus today, i.e. Greeks were a much smaller minority. As a Turk, altough I do not like it I still respect the Greek efforts to gain their independence from the Ottomans and hope that they will show the same respect to those Turks seeking independence from the rule of the Greek majority in Cyprus.

You forgot a "small detail". Greece belonged to Greeks. The Ottomans were just the foreign rulers.
The north part of Cyprus does not belong to the TCs exclusively. Northern Cyprus is the homeland of 200.000 GCs and just 50.000 TCs, not to mention that GCs have a history there of 3500 years, while TCs less than 500.

By the way, what is your opinion about solving the conflict between Turks and the Kurdish minority? Just like the Greeks under the Ottomans (and unlike TCs today) the Kurds have lived historically in the area called Kurdistan, even before the Turks came there.

And if we are all Cypriots and have Cypriot blood (in varying amounts) running through our veins then we too have been part of Cyprus for 3500 years (why didn't I think of that before....doh!) and we must live apart brother. I contest the will.......I want 50%.