Cyprus-Forum.com

[shahmaran]

lol sotos man seriosuly, cut the crap....u want something from me u have to come up with a better bargain than that dont you think? u seem to have oversimplified the situation in your mind, which is no suprize to me, everyone bites as big as their mouth can

[zan]

sotos still not learned a thing

[Piratis]

shahmaran, what we want from you is to end the illegalities and crimes against us.

We don't want anything from you that belongs to you. Nothing at all. We want what belongs to us. Now if following legality is not what you want, and you are happy to face the consequences of your crimes, then you can continue for as long as you can. Don't expect us to ever accept that or to give up thought.

Peace can only come when legality and human rights are restored. Otherwise the circle of blood will continue and it is only a matter of time for when the balance of power will change again and we will all wildness the "next round".

I hope that by then we will all get wiser and accept that respect, democracy and human rights is the right way to solve our problem, rather than force and power.

[Marz]

shahmaran said "i say close the borders, lift sanctions, allow north to prosper like a propper country should and then we can talk again....heheh"

This first comment you wrote is the shit fight you started and then you sit back and jugde peoples comments to you, after that you make yourself into a victim and you didnt do nothing to anyone, blah blah blah.

Wake up asshole, you start a fight expect to get beaten up.

[shahmaran]

First of all -with no disrespect- i dont expect anything from you, i have lived my life without the Greeks and i still can, for all i care they can close the borders tomorrow and forget about everything, i have been to the other side once and got treated like shit and never felt the need to go back ever again. i was not around before the war so this is the only Cyprus i have known of.

Secondly i do not understand what part of your human rights are violated when im the one who has to suffer the consequences of the past, when i have done nothing but born into a conflict, this for me is the biggest crime of all, causing persistent damage on new generations for the mistakes of the past (from either sides). And how come you are not facing the consequences of your crimes? Afterall we didnt kill our own people too did we? How come every Greek is so quick to talk about the Turkish crimes, but i dont hear anyone speaking about the mass graves we found with half dead women and children beneath every village?

As far as im concerned, even way before the separation, the Greeks were still not happy with the Turks and the Maronits and other minorities on the island and thats probably why the turks do not trust the Greeks, we do not believe that properties are your only concern. The separation is there for a reason, and that is to keep us alive. i hate having immigrants from turkey here as much as you do, but hey, if thats the price i have to pay to be alive then so be it.

And last but not least i am happy to live in a situation that i know of and am used to, quite little village up in the north west. TRNC might not be the most prosporous country in the world but it is my country, legal or not, and i would not give it up just so i can live with people that im not even sure if they will accept me. (plus they are faar more wealthier then i am which will bring many other consequences) i am not racist but statistically speaking, probably only about 1 out of 8 Greeks i meet talk to me in a genuine and non prejudice manner, so im sorry if im a bit concerned ok might have gone a bit off topic there........lol

[Piratis]

First of all -with no disrespect- i dont expect anything from you, i have lived my life without the Greeks and i still can, for all i care they can close the borders tomorrow and forget about everything, i have been to the other side once and got treated like shit and never felt the need to go back ever again. i was not around before the war so this is the only Cyprus i have known of.

I don't know the circumstances under which you have been treated badly. However you should remember that if you tell another person that you support crimes and human rights violations against him, then you might receive an equally disrespectful attitude against you as well in return.

Secondly i do not understand what part of your human rights are violated when im the one who has to suffer the consequences of the past, when i have done nothing but born into a conflict, this for me is the biggest crime of all, causing persistent damage on new generations for the mistakes of the past (from either sides). And how come you are not facing the consequences of your crimes? Afterall we didnt kill our own people too did we? How come every Greek is so quick to talk about the Turkish crimes, but i dont hear anyone speaking about the mass graves we found with half dead women and children beneath every village?

If you don't understand the human rights violations against Greek Cypriots that happen as we speak, for the last 32 years (and not go even further in the past), and you exaggerate by talking about "mass graves of TCs in every village" when in fact the amount of GCs butchered by the Turks is at least 10 times as much, then I am afraid the education that has been given to you has not been objective at all.

1/3rd of Greek Cypriots have been ethnically cleansed from their homeland at gun point and they are still refused their right to return to their homes. You really cant see the human right violation in this? If you don't, then why don't you just pack your things and leave from Cyprus and go to live elsewhere without any of the consequences that you mention? Our refugees didn't even have the chance to take their belongings when they were forced out of their homes at gun point.

This is why in Cyprus we have the Problem. The problem is that there is an illegal Turkish occupation that imposes human rights violations against GCs and in return some negative consequences to TCs.

How about ending this illegality so nobody has to suffer any more? You can't support the human rights violations and illegalities against others, and the next moment complain that your support to these illegal actions has negative consequences for you.

As far as im concerned, even way before the separation, the Greeks were still not happy with the Turks and the Maronits and other minorities on the island and thats probably why the turks do not trust the Greeks, we do not believe that properties are your only concern. The separation is there for a reason, and that is to keep us alive. i hate having immigrants from turkey here as much as you do, but hey, if thats the price i have to pay to be alive then so be it.

Again you repeat the "evil GC" theories that you have been thought. I hope that you do know that all the other minorities in Cyprus have chosen to be part of the GC community and also condemn the Turkish occupation of Cyprus. They trust us and we trust them and they are 100% Cypriots, that respect our common country.

And last but not least Razz i am happy to live in a situation that i know of and am used to, quite little village up in the north west. TRNC might not be the most prosporous country in the world but it is my country, legal or not, and i would not give it up just so i can live with people that im not even sure if they will accept me. (plus they are faar more wealthier then i am which will bring many other consequences) i am not racist but statistically speaking, probably only about 1 out of 8 Greeks i meet talk to me in a genuine and non prejudice manner, so im sorry if im a bit concerned Smile ok might have gone a bit off topic there........lol

Sure you can be happy, and you surely could even be happier if you could keep our land illegally and face no consequences as a result. Then you would have absolutely no motive for a solution, would you?
This is why we want you to face consequences. Not because we hate you, but because it is required so you will remember that in Cyprus there is an illegality and people suffer because of it and therefore this illegality should end the sooner so no more generations will have to suffer from it.

I know the unknown might be uncomfortable for you, but personally I believe that in a true united democratic Cyprus part of EU you would feel much more secure and stable rather than living in an illegal unrecognized state, ruled by the Turkish military, with an uncertain future.

All you have to do is to realize a few things:

1) The "evil GC" theories are taught to you by those partitionists that use this hate propaganda as means to achieve their aim.

2) That you have to abandon the "we won the war and we want our reward" mentality, because you (TCs) won nothing, you in fact lost a lot, and who benefited is the Turkish military.

3) That the solution can be such that within a united Cyprus you will have much more real power (not just theoretical one, with "presidents" that can decide nothing) and say than what you have by being the puppets of Turkey and soon to be a minority among the Turkish Settlers.

Also remember that this separation is an artificial one created by outsiders to serve their own interests. You are Cypriots like we are, Turkish is just one of your attributes, but you have a lot more common things with the rest of your compatriots (GCs, Maronites, Armenians etc) than those Turkish settlers and the Turkish army that rules you.

[andri_cy]

andy cry when did u come into action, i think my initial post was a lot more humanistic then of that fucking dipshits, which is the kind of attitude which lost him his stupid land or whatever, history is there to learn from not to live by, so i think maybe U move on!!

It might have sounded as a request but it wasn't. Present your arguments, while following the rules. Plain and simple.

[andri_cy]

shitomoron, we got a sample of your highly intellectual discussion abilities already. We are very sorry that we can not reach your high level

Soto, you need to be more civil also...

[shahmaran]

exagerate? how is my education less objective than yours? does it not ever cross your mind that u might have been educated with the same strategy? how was a minority with no real army supposed to try ethnically clens greeks from the island? turks live with all sorts of ethnic groups, they have been for hundreds of years, why should we try do this now?

you say we have been torturing you for 32 years, but up until 74 it was us who were getting tortured by you for many years and even tho the violence has stopped the hate is still there wether its in cyprus or greece, u know we have a very long history.

u might just be missing some land and property but we have been robbed of our lives. dont u think we know we were better off without the intervention on the island where we lived in a recognized country with some kind of future and chance to prosper? why would we choose to live as we do right now?

u blame me for having this evil greek image but u seem to have exactly the same but opposite version in your mind, that us turks just go around taking ppls stuff, drive them off their land and then laugh about it while drinking raki lol.....

the massgraves are not exagerations, i have seen hundreds of documents and pictures of them, and if you say that they have all been fabricated just to serve this big turkish agenda and im brought up to hate you for that reason, then i must be living some kind of a conspiracy lol. my village was one of the only villages that was mainly turkish and who managed to fight and keep the greeks out up until the turks came, everyone still remembers the buses full of greeks raiding the place, not even soldiers but civilians, most of my family fought there too, surely they cant all be lying can they?

and finally we still do have maronits who live on our side, no one has ever bothered them, according to you, we should have pushed them south with gun point too, since we r such greedy war mongers...i personally believe that we have both been put into this situation, as u say, by foreign forces who manipulate all of us to serve their own purpose, we have what 5 differnt armies in a tiny little island? its not the first time the english have used you against us is it? in turkish we have a saying, if 2 ppl fight over something the 3rd will take it......and so the story goes hehehe

[Eliko]

shahmaran, what a pity you did not present your first contribution to this discussion in the same manner as your last, with a little re-construction of the latter, you could have opened the door to an interesting exchange of views and possibly found some common ground with the younger members, it is such a shame to witness how quickly these exchanges descend into the abyss of hatred subsequent to the use of aggressive and foul language, as your experiences as a child dictate your attitude as an adult, try to accept that the same principle applies to those who hold alternative opinions. The political arguments are above all our heads and our disagreements are welcomed by the powers that rule our lives, I think the future depends on the ability of the young to overcome the barriers placed by the military and political manipulators of our times, we are the people, we should seek peace through reason and mutual respect, that way we might even be able to achieve the objective of returning to the days when all of us enjoyed the company of each other on this island. Best wishes to you shahmaran and I think you owe an apology for your outburst to a member, now stand up 'the man'.