Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

Piratis...Lets forget whether VP's demands are reasonable or not.It doesn't really matter.We are not worried about what is right or wrong at this stage but what is "realistic".

What is realistic is what is sensible. 29% is not sensible and can not be accepted, and therefore not realistic.

VP has come down 8% from 37%,so could you go up 8% from where you are to 26% of the land for the TC state?

It is not like that. We accepted that from no states TCs can have a state of 18%, and we got nothing in return so far. VP never owned a 37% state, just illegally occupying 37% of unitary RoC.

82%-18% is what is fair. We are not going to make some outrageous demand .. say a TC state of 3%, so latter we will "compromise" and accept 18%. I say what is fair from the beginning. I don't like bargains.

[Piratis]

Thanks for the invite Bir but I have to do some work in a convent today and swearing under my breath is not going to be an appropriate way to behave in such a place. As a quick reaction though I would say that 37% is just fine. Sorry Bir but I am not into sado masochism.

In that case all the consequences you receive now, and the many more that you will receive in the future until RoC is liberated, are just fine as well.

[DT.]

WHy would 18% of the population consider it realistic to stay in 29% of the land?

[BirKibrisli]

Piratis...Lets forget whether VP's demands are reasonable or not.It doesn't really matter.We are not worried about what is right or wrong at this stage but what is "realistic".

What is realistic is what is sensible. 29% is not sensible and can not be accepted, and therefore not realistic.

VP has come down 8% from 37%,so could you go up 8% from where you are to 26% of the land for the TC state?

It is not like that. We accepted that from no states TCs can have a state of 18%, and we got nothing in return so far. VP never owned a 37% state, just illegally occupying 37% of unitary RoC.

82%-18% is what is fair. We are not going to make some outrageous demand .. say a TC state of 3%, so latter we will "compromise" and accept 18%. I say what is fair from the beginning. I don't like bargains.

I don't like bargains either,Piratis.But we don't have an alternative.Remember that the ultimate aim is to get to a unified democratic Cyprus.To do that we have to make compromises. I know that 18-82 % is fair and sensible to you.But not to VP obviously.So the choice is to stick in the hole that we are all in,or to do what is realistic and possible to move one step forward. This is the hard part,Piratis.
Dig deep into your heart,and keep the ultimate aim in your mind.
Why can't you live with 26-74 % for a specified period,just to take the negotiations one step forward?

[zan]

Thanks for the invite Bir but I have to do some work in a convent today and swearing under my breath is not going to be an appropriate way to behave in such a place. As a quick reaction though I would say that 37% is just fine. Sorry Bir but I am not into sado masochism.

In that case all the consequences you receive now, and the many more that you will receive in the future until RoC is liberated, are just fine as well.

We are big boys now and with a heavy heart we have to face the realities of you and your pig headed ideas. I am holding on to the faith that not all GCs are like you and that common sense will prevail but am only sure that it will not. I shoould be happy that relations are falling apart and that the island will be divided for a long long time to come but I am not.

[DT.]

Can you explain why there is no compromise from the TC side regarding the 18%?

DOn't tell me they started from 37%, the invasion started from 37%. Had the turkish troops stopped at 60% should we be thankful that 18% of the population would only ask for 50%?

[Viewpoint]

Can you explain why there is no compromise from the TC side regarding the 18%?

DOn't tell me they started from 37%, the invasion started from 37%. Had the turkish troops stopped at 60% should we be thankful that 18% of the population would only ask for 50%?

Where in the world do you distribute the land mass according to population size size?. This notion is ridiculous. then all nations should reduce their size according to the sale of land to foreign nationals. The bottom line is how much land is kept under TC administration in a reunification solution? as this land will also accommodate GCs it should be adjusted accordingly. If we also to allow for freedom of movement and settlement then whats the problem? do the GC have problems living under TC administration? isn't this hypocritical when that is what they want to force us into?

Its only when you are going to create a 2 different countries where there will no GC in the TRNC can you argue the point of 18%.

[BirKibrisli]

Can you explain why there is no compromise from the TC side regarding the 18%?

DOn't tell me they started from 37%, the invasion started from 37%. Had the turkish troops stopped at 60% should we be thankful that 18% of the population would only ask for 50%?

We are trying an exercise,DT,to see if we can virtually achieve the aim of a United,democratic,one vote one value state,where nobody gives a fcuk about anybody's ethnic origins. We have agreed that this will not be achieved in one big step.So are starting from where we are,and trying to get to the next stage which we agreed has to be a bizonal federation of some kind. You are most welcome to make your constructive contribution to get us there. We are not talking about what is fair or just or sensible,but what is "real" and "possible". We can only get there from here,we will be totally lost if we get back to 1974 or 1960 or 1838 or 1571 for that matter...

[DT.]

Then we can say that going to 18% is a realistic option. You can't just request a realistic answer from one of the sides and not the other.

[humanist]

Is there a problem with keeping the South State as is the North Cyprus State the same land size as is now inclduding Varosha the Buffer Zone becomes a PEACE Park with sculpures along the way designed by students from combined educational Instuitutions. All Cypriots given their right to excercise where they want to live...... not all of them will return to North State because they either would not want to live in a State mostly governed by Turkish Speaking Cypriots or living with Turkish Speaking Cypriots. A commission made up of Cypriots, Greeks, Turks and other independant EU countries to determine on individual basis which settler families stay and which they go. Given that if Cyprus is United that would allow Turkey's accession to the EU to become a reality and those settlers could theoretically re-settle back in Cyprus as EU citizens.? Famagusta port to be the countries port, close Limasol port, larnaca and pahos aiports to remain , nicosia airport will only cause noise pollution for the people of Lefkosia. Alll Cypriots contirbute to the economic, social and cultural society of Cyprus and share equally the necessary services. All schools teach Greek, Turkish and English to students and is compolsory to follow the language stream to year 11. All government and other institutions to employee bilingual staff or some Greek Speaking some Turksih speaking. Upon return those whose properties are not occupied by Turkish Speaking Families outght to return first so that as their current accvommodation becomes available Turkish Speaking families can move in either temporarily or permanently if they so wish and according to government policies. Hence making the transition although painful an easy process. And the buffer zone becomes a peace park ---- the rightful owners of properties that fall within the buffer zone ( future park) can be compensated at market value for their property. Cyprus infrastrucure focusses on building up North Cyprus to have equal standards of living for all Cypriots as is in the South..... Common people lets agree and I shallapproach the EU and the Roc as well as the Northern Cypriots Leadership for a United Cyprus by a plan by the people for the people ..... All Turksih troops out immediately and UN forces to maintain law and order for the next three years