Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

Security is important for both sides. Its been good for the last 32 years, lets keep that way.

I would like to ask all those that are about to tell the above provocateur what an asshole he is, to refrain from doing so because he is already found by many forum members to be an unfortunate low IQ person!

This is totally uncalled for and detracts from the quality of the debating, can you please refrain from this as it gets us absolutely nowhere. This thread is going somewhere don't ruin it, if you don't like someones comments ignore them.

[Viewpoint]

Birkıbırslı

Your 3 paramount issues (Security/North State/Political Balance) proves my point.Because they can be described as factors which guarantee "Security" for Turkish Cypriots.

Thank you for proving my point. The Tcs want a safety security mechanism in times of crisis, their own area and a balance which will ensure they have a say in their future and things are not left to chance. If in 10 20 years time these issue are made redundant and both communities feel they are no longer required then we can all move forward and make the changes that will support all Cypriots.

[Viewpoint]

Piratis

What does security has to do for example with the 18% of TCs demanding 29%+ of land. Or how does the security issue has anything to do with the amount of settlers that will remain?

Lets take your notion of 18% demanding 29% of land my first explanation is that some GCs will want to return to the north state so there has to be adequate % to accommodate these people. Secondly where does it say that that land distribution is related to the percentage of land, look at the figures of the UK and the USA.

The settlers issue is one where TC are very flexible but they believe these people should be treated humanely and according to EU norms, those that a history on the island and arrived 20 years and ago and have children should not be forced to return but those who want to work here should be treated just like you treat your Filipinos and Sri Lankans, providing working permits etc.

Beyond that, you can say 1,2,3,4,5 and whatever. You have every right to demand some things (e.g. security) but it doesn't mean that you have the right for whatever outrageous comes to your mind.

Please try to absorb what we write, if you took 2 minutes to understand what we are actually stating they are not really that extreme or outrageous, ask questions but don't try to downgrade, ridicule and ignore our concerns as if they do not exist. This attitude only serves once purpose and that's to reinforce that you are not people we should share a coffee with let alone a country.[/quote]

[Kifeas]

Birkıbırslı

Your 3 paramount issues (Security/North State/Political Balance) proves my point.Because they can be described as factors which guarantee "Security" for Turkish Cypriots.

Thank you for proving my point. The Tcs want a safety security mechanism in times of crisis, their own area and a balance which will ensure they have a say in their future and things are not left to chance. If in 10 20 years time these issue are made redundant and both communities feel they are no longer required then we can all move forward and make the changes that will support all Cypriots.

Your area???? What do you mean your area??? Do you mean that under a BBF, the north state will be of your exclusive TC ethnic or "national" ownership??? And you want us to ever accept such a solution that will make you partners in the central government, and will also at the same time allow you become the owners of the north state alone, as a gift, i.e. the 29.5% of Cyprus when you are only the now less than 18% of the tax paying citizens of the country? Forget it VP, you are not asking for peace, but for a war!

[Viewpoint]

Calm down oracle, I meant a north state where TCs and GCs (as GCs will be allowed to return) can live but the local administration would be TCs, is that better?

[pitsilos]

I would like to ask all those that are about to tell the above provocateur what an asshole he is, to refrain from doing so because he is already found by many forum members to be an unfortunate low IQ person!

Yes Kifeas, That puts us in the same boat. From where I'm sitting you are not the most popular member either. I personally think you are lowest form of human life. Wouldnt piss on you if you were on fire.

Still, I can thank my lucky stars that our paths will never cross. You will be in your little hell hole in the south and I will be traveling between my properties in Spain England and TRNC enjoying a peaceful and dignified existence.

is ethnically cleansing and stealing of properties also condoned in other countries or only applies to the likes of mrfrog, zan, bj turk and vp?

[Piratis]

Calm down oracle, I meant a north state where TCs and GCs (as GCs will be allowed to return) can live but the local administration would be TCs, is that better?

I though you were a supported of political equality of communities viewpoint. Are you now telling me that in a hypothetical state with a TC majority and GC minority, in that state the GCs and TCs would not be politically equal, but instead the state will be TC administered?

So you want "political equality" only when you are the minority and it suits you, but in case you were the majority in a state you would not demand the same?

[Kifeas]

Calm down oracle, I meant a north state where TCs and GCs (as GCs will be allowed to return) can live but the local administration would be TCs, is that better?

I though you were a supported of political equality of communities viewpoint. Are you now telling me that in a hypothetical state with a TC majority and GC minority, in that state the GCs and TCs would not be politically equal, but instead the state will be TC administered?

So you want "political equality" only when you are the minority and it suits you, but in case you were the majority in a state you would not demand the same?

You are making VP laugh, Piratis, by what you are saying. They expect /want the GCs that will re-settle into the north to be treated like immigrants or tourists in their own country, plus pay local taxes as permanent residents, but without having any political rights -not even simple minority ones, or any saying there whatsoever! This is what they envision …and you are asking for political equality.

[Piratis]

Lets take your notion of 18% demanding 29% of land my first explanation is that some GCs will want to return to the north state so there has to be adequate % to accommodate these people.

And no TC will be allowed in the south state?

Secondly where does it say that that land distribution is related to the percentage of land, look at the figures of the UK and the USA.

If we look at the figures in USA and UK, we will see there was no land distribution among the different races there. The blacks, asians, etc do not have their own separate state. Also all citizens of those countries are free to move and settle with full rights in any state that they want to. If you also accept this principle as it exists in the USA, then sure, no problem about the %. Otherwise you can say that you want 30%, 40%, 70% or whatever random percentage you want to say. But considering that you have no right for a separate state unless we also agree to it, then you have to become more sensible and accept that the most fair distribution would be 18%-82%, otherwise any discussion on this will be a waste of time as we are not obligated to agree to whatever thing you ask for.

The only thing we are obligated to are the 1960 agreements. Beyond that the ones that violate those agreements will face consequences, until they accept the 1960 agreement or we agree for something different. But to agree for something different you have to be sensible.

The settlers issue is one where TC are very flexible but they believe these people should be treated humanely and according to EU norms, those that a history on the island and arrived 20 years and ago and have children should not be forced to return but those who want to work here should be treated just like you treat your Filipinos and Sri Lankans, providing working permits etc.

Yes, they will be treated as Sri Lankans and any other 3rd country citizens. If they come to Cyprus legally they can work her for as long as they have work permit. If they are not legally here then they will have to go.
Of course they should be treated in humane way, and Cyprus will be responsible to make their transfer to Turkey as convenient as possible. However after that it will be a responsibility of their country to treat them in humane way.

Please try to absorb what we write, if you took 2 minutes to understand what we are actually stating they are not really that extreme or outrageous, ask questions but don't try to downgrade, ridicule and ignore our concerns as if they do not exist. This attitude only serves once purpose and that's to reinforce that you are not people we should share a coffee with let alone a country.

Some of what you are asking are in fact outrageous. You said about security, I said yes, definitely. If you said about democracy, about human rights, again, definitely we should guarantee these for all Cypriots.

But when you demand things that you have no right for and which would in fact violate the human and democratic rights of 100s of thousands of people, then yes, I have the right to reject them and call the outrageous.

While you want us to understand your concerns, unfortunately not only you do not understand our concerns but you still insist that our human and democratic rights should be violated. This in my opinion is a total disrespect towards us, and it should stop.

[Viewpoint]

The political equality/balance would exist at the federal level where the balance in numbers could still be in favour of the GC MPs but with a required minimum of TC MPs votes these minimums could be adjusted for more serious decision that would effect a community negatively.

For example 80 GC MPs 20 TC MPs are to be elected.

Everyone votes for who they want to elect as an MP from all over the island north and south, the top 80 GC candidates get in and the top 20 TC candidates get in. These MPs can come form either state.

Hopefully this would encourage mixed political parties in both states in order to be elected they would have to produce not only GC MPs but also TC MPs to form a government with the right balance to pass decisions as one political party.