Cyprus-Forum.com

[BirKibrisli]

Hello Birkibrisli,
Security is indeed a factor that needs to be dealt with, but this is not a one sided issue. There is the issue of GC security as well, and certainly unilateral intervention rights by Turkey, or permanent stationing of Turkish troops in Cyprus is not the answer to the issue of security. However, we are ready to examine all other options under which the issue of security can be addressed, for both communities.

Hello,Kifeas...
You are absolutely right.Both sides must be made to feel safe for peaceful coexistence.I think most TCs underestimate the need for the GCs to feel secure as well,with Turkey breathing down their neck.Thank you for pointing that out.

[BirKibrisli]

Security is important for both sides. Its been good for the last 32 years, lets keep that way.

It might have been good for the TCs,mrfromng,but try to imagine how "secure" the presence of 40,000 Turkish troops and 600 tanks make the GCs feel?

[MR-from-NG]

It might have been good for the TCs,mrfromng,but try to imagine how "secure" the presence of 40,000 Turkish troops and 600 tanks make the GCs feel?

They were never under threat. They could sleep soundly without the threat of getting killed in bed. And lets be honest they were just the victims of circumstances, as we all are.

[Kifeas]

Security is important for both sides. Its been good for the last 32 years, lets keep that way.

I would like to ask all those that are about to tell the above provocateur what an asshole he is, to refrain from doing so because he is already found by many forum members to be an unfortunate low IQ person!

[BirKibrisli]

It might have been good for the TCs,mrfromng,but try to imagine how "secure" the presence of 40,000 Turkish troops and 600 tanks make the GCs feel?

They were never under threat. They could sleep soundly without the threat of getting killed in bed. And lets be honest they were just the victims of circumstances, as we all are.

Yes,but that was before 1974.
How secure would you feel if Greece had 160,000 troops and 2400 tanks in Cyprus???(Assuming that the Turkish troop and tank numbers remain the same as today.)

[humanist]

Birkibrisli, thank you once again for your response ..... I am beginning to belive that the only people who want to see a united Cyprus one that is fair to all and just to all it's people ....... are migrants like you and I who live in Autralia, primarily and I'm not sure if this is related to the disatnce or what, but it's not the same feeling attched to British/ Cypriots or American/ Cypriots. I live in Sydney Australia and have done since 1998, I grew up in Adelaide where my family settled upon our immigratin to Australia in 1981.

I am actually thinking of not logging back on again because all I read is the same old same old.

Turkish Speaking Cypriots winging of all the past hurts, Greek Speaking Cypriots winging and winning about past hurts very few people actually talk about peace marches, discussing host programs to enable children on both sides to experience the life of the oher, very few poeple suggest creating organisations that argue for a united Cyprus.

I am getting a bit bored of the same old story of the last 32 years and I choose to only refer to the last 32 years because I was 6 in 1974 and I remember the war. I choose not to go beyond that because I will enter the cycle and I am trying hard not to do that.

My post here was to get support for a Peace Park along the Green Line Buffer Zone, but all I got was a few lines of support in the first page then back to same old same old ........ you did this, we suffered this, they've done that to us, we're doing this to them ..... the fact is the average jo in Cyprus is lost in all this for the benefits of very few who stand to personally gain through this division whetehr be financially or through political power. They cannot see that Turkey can actually swollow Cyprus up in a day if they decided, they also cannot see that Turkey has not chosen to swallow then up in a day because Turkey itself is driven by the interest of the outside world. at the end back to the average jo in Cyprus who is either economically suppressed or they have not got a home to call their own and live in refugee estates ..... you go figure ....

[MR-from-NG]

I would like to ask all those that are about to tell the above provocateur what an asshole he is, to refrain from doing so because he is already found by many forum members to be an unfortunate low IQ person!

Yes Kifeas, That puts us in the same boat. From where I'm sitting you are not the most popular member either. I personally think you are lowest form of human life. Wouldnt piss on you if you were on fire.

Still, I can thank my lucky stars that our paths will never cross. You will be in your little hell hole in the south and I will be traveling between my properties in Spain England and TRNC enjoying a peaceful and dignified existence.

Long live TRNC. Solution=Partition.

[MR-from-NG]

Yes,but that was before 1974.
How secure would you feel if Greece had 160,000 troops and 2400 tanks in Cyprus???(Assuming that the Turkish troop and tank numbers remain the same as today.)

BirK, are you kidding me? We have 800000 of the most arrogant, aggressive, unreasonable people as a direct threat to our security. That is far more dangerous and threatening than 160000 Greek troops. At least troops are disciplined and take orders from higher ranks. Fanatical civilians such as the GC's are far more dangerous. You are forgetting the fact that these people hate us with a passion. Just read what Klik, Piratis,Kifeas, Pistotis and co have to say about us. Birk you need to have a reality check

[Piratis]

Sorry,Piratis,but I don't have a more precise solution formula other than the variations on the Annan plan,which seem to be unacceptable to GCs.

Having studied the situation on the ground,so to speak,I have to agree with you that TCs will not accept any solution which does not include a separate state guaranteed by Turkey.

A separate state in the way that California is a state within USA is something that we have accepted. What TCs are asking for has nothing to do with Federation as it exists in other Federal countries. The Annan plan is modeled after the Swiss Confederation and it is made even weaker than that, which results, as Reuters always calls it, to a "week association" between tow basically separate countries. In a few words, partition.

The feeling "why should we give up at the negotiating table what we won by bloodshed" is still very strong.

Doesn't that mean that only with another bloodshed we can gain back what belongs to us? Are negotiations a waste of time then?

My urgency lies in my belief that this feeling will only get stronger as time goes on. So if we want a solution which goes beyond the status quo,which is de facto Partition,we have to temp TCs and Turkey with something tangible.Two federated states with a central government is the best we can probably expect at this stage.I am eager to give the people of Cyprus the opportunity they never got: the opportunity to forge a nation of Cypriots.This must involve the opportunity for the communities to live together,not just side by side.If you had GCs living in the TC controlled state and vice versa,this will give people a chance to develop respect and understanding.But even this level of compromise needs a firm commitment from both sides that they are willing to work towards a peaceful solution,denouncing any intentions to pursue a hot conflict.
The fact that exactly the opposite is happening in the forums and in real life,gives me reason to despire.If all we do is sit back and wait for the next opportunity to wage war,this can only lead to ruin and mayhem...

Bir, you talk about opportunities after an agreement is signed. So I will ask you again: Do you honestly believe that after we sign away our rights and land, the TCs will later on come and voluntarily give up even a single right or a single inch for what would then be legally theirs, to make a new more fair solution? Please answer.

[Piratis]

Great posts Birkıbrıslı and Piratis, where did you brealdown in understanding each other? imo its at this point,

Piratis

But I don't think the majority of TCs would agree. If the Cyprus problem was just an issue of guaranteeing the security of TCs it would have been solved long time ago.
Unfortunately the TCs use the security issue as an excuse. What does security has to do for example with the 18% of TCs demanding 29%+ of land. Or how does the security issue has anything to do with the amount of settlers that will remain?
The issue is more of a "we won the war and we expect to gain on your loss" thing, wrapped up in several lame excuses.

Can you explain Bir, because Piratis does not believe anything I post that the above statements are not true and the 3 issues paramount to TCs are 1Security 2North State and 3Political Balance....

Viewpoint, you have every right to demand security, and this is something every Cypriot citizen should have, and I can accept many things that would make you more secure.

But can you please explain to me please:
What does security has to do for example with the 18% of TCs demanding 29%+ of land. Or how does the security issue has anything to do with the amount of settlers that will remain?

Can you answer?

Beyond that, you can say 1,2,3,4,5 and whatever. You have every right to demand some things (e.g. security) but it doesn't mean that you have the right for whatever outrageous comes to your mind.