Cyprus-Forum.com

[humanist]

Dear Birkibrisli ,,,,, I am not sure whether you identify as Cypriot, Turkish Speaking Cypriot or Greek Speaking Cypriot. Firstly I wish to thank you for your support.

Secondly thank you for looking toward a brighter future for Cyprus.

Thirdly thank you for your argument and debate it is presented in a mature, clear, sensitiveand respectful manner. To this end I have been able to read, understand and agree with the arguments you have put forward. My dear friend although I feel that Greek Speaking Cypriots have been disadvantaged by the division on the Island in that they have no access to their properties and thus livelyhood and yeas they have lost loved ones also and I lost my 17 years old uncle at the time. My heart really goes to my fellow Cypriots of Turkish Speaking background in that they have been isolated for over 32 years and on an economic level are experiencing the hardship of this situation. I am sure that many also feel the impact of permanent settlement or lack of as they have not been able to have what the rest of the world including Greek Speaking Cypriot Refugees the right to feel that the home they are living in is theirs.

I also want to say that your argument of physical safety is very important and crucial as you say in a settlement process. I do apologise for what happened they other week to the young student in Cyprus. I do also believe that those thugs do not represent the majority of Greek Speaking Cypriots. Perhaps if the majority of Turkish Cypriots feel the way you do in that the 1960's agreement with some changes to make it more fair , I beieve that the Greek Speaking Cypriot population would support it.

If you have any contacts or influential connections within the Northern Cyprus leadership it would be powerful step towards a new Cyprus if your leder could formulate a a plan to be put forward to the UN for negotiations. To this end bringing peace to the Island and perhaps getting my Peace Park dream coming true with a gigantic Peace Monument as suggested.

I hope that you are wrong about the population statistics in the North, but 32 years of pain would be in vein if all that is left of the Turksih Speaking Cypriots is yet again being a minority.

May Peace rain on Cyprus each and evryday from this moment on!!! The people are talking good.

[BirKibrisli]

Sorry,Piratis,but I don't have a more precise solution formula other than the variations on the Annan plan,which seem to be unacceptable to GCs.

Having studied the situation on the ground,so to speak,I have to agree with you that TCs will not accept any solution which does not include a separate state guaranteed by Turkey.The feeling "why should we give up at the negotiating table what we won by bloodshed" is still very strong.

My urgency lies in my belief that this feeling will only get stronger as time goes on. So if we want a solution which goes beyond the status quo,which is de facto Partition,we have to temp TCs and Turkey with something tangible.Two federated states with a central government is the best we can probably expect at this stage.I am eager to give the people of Cyprus the opportunity they never got: the opportunity to forge a nation of Cypriots.This must involve the opportunity for the communities to live together,not just side by side.If you had GCs living in the TC controlled state and vice versa,this will give people a chance to develop respect and understanding.But even this level of compromise needs a firm commitment from both sides that they are willing to work towards a peaceful solution,denouncing any intentions to pursue a hot conflict.
The fact that exactly the opposite is happening in the forums and in real life,gives me reason to despire.If all we do is sit back and wait for the next opportunity to wage war,this can only lead to ruin and mayhem...

[lupusdiavoli]

Though the word can be interpretated in many ways, that is to "forge a nation", forgery it is. There is no such a nation, a state may be, but not a nation.

Unless someone can point to the source of the problem you cannot find the remedy.

As long as there are pending differences between Turkey and Greece it is inevitable that the ethnic communities in Cyprus shall be affected.

Partition on the ground is a reality. It is gradually followed by partition of the souls. War belongs to the human reality too. Given the future circumstances the two communities may write new pages of bloody history.

Unless, they follow the utopia of a new nation. I' m trying to find any similar example in history. I cannot. Nevertheless, people can still dreaming. Until a bullet gives an end for good.

Get Real

[humanist]

I would sugest that a Federation of Cyprus comprising two states the current North and South, with current buffer zone created into a peace park.... all refugees to have the right to return both north and south. those who do not wish to return because they have established their lives elsewhere to be given either compensation at market value for their property or the option to sell it to the highest bidder. I doubt that all Greek Speaking Cypriots will be returning to the North especially those who have homes, business in the south, all Cypriots to have equal rights to health, education, social and economic opportunities, one tax system that is equal fair and just, somthing like australia for example..... no military on the Island what so ever, UN to act as guarantor for safety of all Cypriots, settlers sorry but need to go, however a task force to be set up to look at their situations individually before being asked to leave or perhaps they do leave and then apply to immigrate back into Cyprus. All schools teach both languages, all those whishing to participate in religious life to be allowed to practice their beliefs free of fear and discrimination. All Cypriots allowed to move anywhere within their country. Public services such as police, schools, health, government departments to employee bilingual staff and because there is a shortage of bilingual staff employee Turkish/ Greek speaking employees throughout regardless of whether people live in the North or South. North Cyprus + South Cyprus = Cyprus.

fair dinkum!

[BirKibrisli]

Dear Birkibrisli ,,,,, I am not sure whether you identify as Cypriot, Turkish Speaking Cypriot or Greek Speaking Cypriot. Firstly I wish to thank you for your support.

Secondly thank you for looking toward a brighter future for Cyprus.

Thirdly thank you for your argument and debate it is presented in a mature, clear, sensitiveand respectful manner. To this end I have been able to read, understand and agree with the arguments you have put forward. My dear friend although I feel that Greek Speaking Cypriots have been disadvantaged by the division on the Island in that they have no access to their properties and thus livelyhood and yeas they have lost loved ones also and I lost my 17 years old uncle at the time. My heart really goes to my fellow Cypriots of Turkish Speaking background in that they have been isolated for over 32 years and on an economic level are experiencing the hardship of this situation. I am sure that many also feel the impact of permanent settlement or lack of as they have not been able to have what the rest of the world including Greek Speaking Cypriot Refugees the right to feel that the home they are living in is theirs.

I also want to say that your argument of physical safety is very important and crucial as you say in a settlement process. I do apologise for what happened they other week to the young student in Cyprus. I do also believe that those thugs do not represent the majority of Greek Speaking Cypriots. Perhaps if the majority of Turkish Cypriots feel the way you do in that the 1960's agreement with some changes to make it more fair , I beieve that the Greek Speaking Cypriot population would support it.

If you have any contacts or influential connections within the Northern Cyprus leadership it would be powerful step towards a new Cyprus if your leder could formulate a a plan to be put forward to the UN for negotiations. To this end bringing peace to the Island and perhaps getting my Peace Park dream coming true with a gigantic Peace Monument as suggested.

I hope that you are wrong about the population statistics in the North, but 32 years of pain would be in vein if all that is left of the Turksih Speaking Cypriots is yet again being a minority.

May Peace rain on Cyprus each and evryday from this moment on!!! The people are talking good.

Dear humanist...

Amen to your blessings of peace on Cyprus.
I see you are a new member (relatively) of this forum,and I have been absent for some time for reasons beyond my control.Kifeas,Piratis and some others know me well.For your information I am of TC background who had to go into exile before 1974,mainly because my father was on the hit list for both EOKA and the TMT...Some achievment,yes?
I am one person who knows that nothing is black and white in Cyprus,and the blame is shared amongst many suspects for the ills that befell our beautiful island.I am from a little village near Polis in Paphos,but have not been there since 1967. In Australia where i made my second home i was lucky enough to meet people of Greek and GC origin who had golden hearts.So my ingrained suspicion and hatred of all things Greek has turned to respect and love and understanding.I know we are the same people,the Cypriots,divided by two artificial factors,which should not matter one iota if logic and humanity prevailed.
But they don't and here we are...
Overall my family was lucky to survive the terrible 60s,but we lost one great Uncle who was killed by some criminal thugs who happened to be of GC origin.I do not blame the GC people for this,only those who incited ethnic hatred and violence in guise of senseless nationalism.These people are/were a small minority but they have caused havoc with the lives of hundreds of thousands of people.And the havoc is continuing today.
I strongly believe that the only way forward in Cyprus is via peaceful means which will foster ,understanding,respect, and trust between Cypriots of all backgrounds.The just and permanent solution will then present itself,but not before we do some hard groundwork,which will inevitably involve compromise on both sides.

History will judge us harshly if we put the notions of revenge and getting even ahead of what is good for our country.This is the danger I see facing us in the near future.We must reach deep down in our hearts and find the necessary empathy,the key to putting ourselves in the others' shoes,as prelude to forgiveness and compassion for each other.Cyprus deserves our best efforts to rid ourselves from the corrosive ethnic divisions and hatred which has brought us to the brink of extinction as a nation.Cyprus will be much poorer without her TCs and unthinkable without her GCs.If only we could see this...

[BirKibrisli]

Though the word can be interpretated in many ways, that is to "forge a nation", forgery it is. There is no such a nation, a state may be, but not a nation.

Unless someone can point to the source of the problem you cannot find the remedy.

As long as there are pending differences between Turkey and Greece it is inevitable that the ethnic communities in Cyprus shall be affected.

Partition on the ground is a reality. It is gradually followed by partition of the souls. War belongs to the human reality too. Given the future circumstances the two communities may write new pages of bloody history.

Unless, they follow the utopia of a new nation. I' m trying to find any similar example in history. I cannot. Nevertheless, people can still dreaming. Until a bullet gives an end for good.

Get Real

Cyprus is not a forgery,lupus...And there is a Cypriot nation distinct from our respective origins.That we are at each other's throats does not disqualify us from being one nation. The Sunnis and Shiites in Iraq are killing each other daily....but they are all Iraqis,they belong to the Iraqi nation.They are misguided fools but iraqies nontheless.
It is true that war belongs to humanity,but so are peace and compassion and empathy and respect and understanding.It is upto us to chose the difficult instead of the fascile...

[Viewpoint]

Great posts Birkıbrıslı and Piratis, where did you brealdown in understanding each other? imo its at this point,

Piratis

But I don't think the majority of TCs would agree. If the Cyprus problem was just an issue of guaranteeing the security of TCs it would have been solved long time ago.
Unfortunately the TCs use the security issue as an excuse. What does security has to do for example with the 18% of TCs demanding 29%+ of land. Or how does the security issue has anything to do with the amount of settlers that will remain?
The issue is more of a "we won the war and we expect to gain on your loss" thing, wrapped up in several lame excuses.

Can you explain Bir, because Piratis does not believe anything I post that the above statements are not true and the 3 issues paramount to TCs are 1Security 2North State and 3Political Balance....

[BirKibrisli]

Great posts Birkıbrıslı and Piratis, where did you brealdown in understanding each other? imo its at this point,

Piratis

But I don't think the majority of TCs would agree. If the Cyprus problem was just an issue of guaranteeing the security of TCs it would have been solved long time ago.
Unfortunately the TCs use the security issue as an excuse. What does security has to do for example with the 18% of TCs demanding 29%+ of land. Or how does the security issue has anything to do with the amount of settlers that will remain?
The issue is more of a "we won the war and we expect to gain on your loss" thing, wrapped up in several lame excuses.

Can you explain Bir, because Piratis does not believe anything I post that the above statements are not true and the 3 issues paramount to TCs are 1Security 2North State and 3Political Balance....

I am not sure that those statements are entirely false,Viewpoint.The feeling "we can't give up at the negotiating table what we won by shedding blood" is very strong amongst the majority of TCs.And
there are some TCs and some settlers who have benefited greatly from the situation as it is. I don't believe you are amongst them.
Piratis makes the mistake of generalising and painting everyone with the same brush. He also underestimates the importance of security for TCs.
But if you have not lived in Cyprus during the 50s and 60s as a TC,you can be excused for not believing how important security is.
Your 3 paramount issues (Security/North State/Political Balance) proves my point.Because they can be described as factors which guarantee "Security" for Turkish Cypriots.

There will not be a solution to the Cyprus problem unless our GC compatriots realise how important security is for TCs...

[Kifeas]

Great posts Birkıbrıslı and Piratis, where did you brealdown in understanding each other? imo its at this point,

Piratis

But I don't think the majority of TCs would agree. If the Cyprus problem was just an issue of guaranteeing the security of TCs it would have been solved long time ago.
Unfortunately the TCs use the security issue as an excuse. What does security has to do for example with the 18% of TCs demanding 29%+ of land. Or how does the security issue has anything to do with the amount of settlers that will remain?
The issue is more of a "we won the war and we expect to gain on your loss" thing, wrapped up in several lame excuses.

Can you explain Bir, because Piratis does not believe anything I post that the above statements are not true and the 3 issues paramount to TCs are 1Security 2North State and 3Political Balance....

I am not sure that those statements are entirely false,Viewpoint.The feeling "we can't give up at the negotiating table what we won by shedding blood" is very strong amongst the majority of TCs.And
there are some TCs and some settlers who have benefited greatly from the situation as it is. I don't believe you are amongst them.
Piratis makes the mistake of generalising and painting everyone with the same brush. He also underestimates the importance of security for TCs.
But if you have not lived in Cyprus during the 50s and 60s as a TC,you can be excused for not believing how important security is.
Your 3 paramount issues (Security/North State/Political Balance) proves my point.Because they can be described as factors which guarantee "Security" for Turkish Cypriots.

There will not be a solution to the Cyprus problem unless our GC compatriots realise how important security is for TCs...

Hello Birkibrisli,
Security is indeed a factor that needs to be dealt with, but this is not a one sided issue. There is the issue of GC security as well, and certainly unilateral intervention rights by Turkey, or permanent stationing of Turkish troops in Cyprus is not the answer to the issue of security. However, we are ready to examine all other options under which the issue of security can be addressed, for both communities.

[MR-from-NG]

Security is important for both sides. Its been good for the last 32 years, lets keep that way.