Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

Where in the world do you distribute the land mass according to population size size?. This notion is ridiculous. then all nations should reduce their size according to the sale of land to foreign nationals.

Viewpoint, did you make a mistake and wrote "nations" above?

Mistake or not, we know very well, that what you will accept is either a "solution" that will be partition, or a "solution" that will be a stepping stone for partition.

This is why we will NEVER accept your outrageous demands.

You said again that land is distributed only with wars, it is not the first time. We got the point, thanks. We will keep it in mind and you will see the results sooner or later. Meanwhile rot in your pseudo state for as long as you can have it.

What is your problem if the north state is 30 40 50% if refugees are allowed to return and they can vote for whom ever they want and people all over the island can settle where they want?? whats your objection now as I am 100% sure you will have one as you always do.

You're contradicting yourself. If you have 30-40-50% under a TC administration and people can vote for whoever they want in those cantons then the majority greeks in the TC canton will vote for a greek, and then it won't be a tc conton anymore.

Since i know you made a mistake with this I'm helping you out....18% of the pop for 18% of the land.

You obviously haven't read all of the thread but ill help you out, we will have for example 100 MPs, 80 GC and 20 TC everyone will vote for who they want the first 80GC and first 20TC candidates will get the job. The house will make decisions according to the importance of the decision and will need a specified majority from each community to pass decisions. The more the decision effects one community more negatively the more MP votes they will need to get it passed. Is that clear?

[miltiades]

Birkibrisli, with educated well meaning honest and fair minded Cypriots such as you appear to be the road to a solution and a peaceful outcome for our Cyprus problem will be shorter and less painful. I wish that the majority of our people shared your genuine concerns and were as sensible as you are Sir.

[DT.]

Where in the world do you distribute the land mass according to population size size?. This notion is ridiculous. then all nations should reduce their size according to the sale of land to foreign nationals.

Viewpoint, did you make a mistake and wrote "nations" above?

Mistake or not, we know very well, that what you will accept is either a "solution" that will be partition, or a "solution" that will be a stepping stone for partition.

This is why we will NEVER accept your outrageous demands.

You said again that land is distributed only with wars, it is not the first time. We got the point, thanks. We will keep it in mind and you will see the results sooner or later. Meanwhile rot in your pseudo state for as long as you can have it.

What is your problem if the north state is 30 40 50% if refugees are allowed to return and they can vote for whom ever they want and people all over the island can settle where they want?? whats your objection now as I am 100% sure you will have one as you always do.

You're contradicting yourself. If you have 30-40-50% under a TC administration and people can vote for whoever they want in those cantons then the majority greeks in the TC canton will vote for a greek, and then it won't be a tc conton anymore.

Since i know you made a mistake with this I'm helping you out....18% of the pop for 18% of the land.

You obviously haven't read all of the thread but ill help you out, we will have for example 100 MPs, 80 GC and 20 TC everyone will vote for who they want the first 80GC and first 20TC candidates will get the job. The house will make decisions according to the importance of the decision and will need a specified majority from each community to pass decisions. The more the decision effects one community more negatively the more MP votes they will need to get it passed. Is that clear?

i had read it i just happen to find it completely unworkable with too much grey. In the way its designed it would mean that you could get 10% of the entire pop dictating a law to the rest of the country.

I would also like to stress that I hope our responses here do not discourage you Bir from what you are genuinely trying to do. Like Miltiades I too commend you on your beliefs.

[humanist]

thank you Birk for your support... I am not willing to participate with someone who insults people, makes wild accusations of pot using etc etc etc, because I have different views thatn they do. I am not sure what I have said that the Cypriots are not asking for.... they I merely sugested that the boundaries remain the way they are and that all Cypriots have the right to return, if a Cypriot cannot say "you know what I haven't had my land for 32 years and there's a great cause to create a beautiful park so I am willing to be compensated for my land in order to get my country back together ... then it leaves me to conclude that some of the Cypriots I have observed placing posts on here are self centred, nationalist, victims who are willing to do very little to see their country united.

Birk, I really believe that Turksih Speaking Cypriots are better off in the TRNC, with racists and judgfemental people like Strahd why would they want to be part of the wider Cypriot community.

Thank God my father made his decision to immigrate to Australia when he did as opposed to us living in a racist country like Cyprus.

[Klik]

Had you lived over 400 years of Ottoman oppression, and still do, you'd be a "racist" too... There's a lot of difference between racial discrimination and hatred towards other general publics(in this case the Turks)

[Viewpoint]

Birkibrisli, with educated well meaning honest and fair minded Cypriots such as you appear to be the road to a solution and a peaceful outcome for our Cyprus problem will be shorter and less painful. I wish that the majority of our people shared your genuine concerns and were as sensible as you are Sir.

Piratis shot him down at the first hurdle and we havent heard anything since. This shows GCs are not willing to find a solution unless they get everything their own way. nothing new there was the same back in the 1960s.

[Viewpoint]

thank you Birk for your support... I am not willing to participate with someone who insults people, makes wild accusations of pot using etc etc etc, because I have different views thatn they do. I am not sure what I have said that the Cypriots are not asking for.... they I merely sugested that the boundaries remain the way they are and that all Cypriots have the right to return, if a Cypriot cannot say "you know what I haven't had my land for 32 years and there's a great cause to create a beautiful park so I am willing to be compensated for my land in order to get my country back together ... then it leaves me to conclude that some of the Cypriots I have observed placing posts on here are self centred, nationalist, victims who are willing to do very little to see their country united.

Birk, I really believe that Turksih Speaking Cypriots are better off in the TRNC, with racists and judgfemental people like Strahd why would they want to be part of the wider Cypriot community.

Thank God my father made his decision to immigrate to Australia when he did as opposed to us living in a racist country like Cyprus.

humanist don't despair, you just do not fit into their mould, you go against the grain as you are ready to be flexible and compromise knowing that the TCs are people of this land and that even if the split was left as it was and all Cypriots were free to return and roam settle where they wish then what objections could anyone with a balanced view have to this, yet certain people begrudge us the air we breath, as they harbour revenge and hatred in their hearts and minds.

[humanist]

Viewpoint, thank you for your support. I do despair because each day that passess without a resolution people suffer unecessarily, other than external forces driving it to meet their own needs and the people of Cyprus are paying a very high price emotionally, psychologically, economically and physically.

I know that I do not fit into any mould and that is the very purpose of my existence to be an advocate for human sould and human spirit encompassing love, peace and compassion.


As far as Klik is concerned well he is a little boy whose been brainwashed by his parents whom I would like to meet one day and tell them that I am disappointed at the way they have chosen to raise their son. Perhaps they need to take time out from money making business and spend time loving him and caring for him so that he can learn about acceptance, respect, love peace and compassion. My dear little boy (Klik) does the name Venizelos ring a bell. Well let me advise you that this is my surname. So before you start making ill informed coments, if that is my surname it would probably make me a Greek Speaking Cypriot and yes I choose to be called a Cypriot because as far as I'm concerned the only thing I have in common with Greeks is the language, as I do not believe in the Institution of the Church and as such do not identify as Greek Orthodox, my love and connection with Allah and Jesus are my private affairs that I do not have to show or prove to anyone. So having said this my ancestors many years ago 500 years even yes they were subjected to the Ottoman Empire as were to the Romans and may I dare say it the Greecians as was many other nations who boundaries have moved and shifted over the centuries. And furthermore my 17-year old uncle in 1974 was killed by the Invading Turkish Troops. Do I hate Turksih Speaking Cyprriots? A big fat NO! Do I have issues with the Turksih occupation of Cyprus Yes, Do I have issues with Turkish Government Yes. Do I put Turskish Speaking Cypriots in the same kettle as Turks NO. Do I believe that Turksih Speaking Cypriots have as much right to any inch of Cypriot land as you and may be even me YES.

The difference between you and I is that I beleive in fairness and equality and taking responsibility for actions of the past. The truth is both communities fucked up at some stage in the 1950's and probably well before that, because its all evolutionary it jsut didn't happen over night my friend. Bad leadership on both sides lead to where we are today.

It is time we all let go of the past and concentrate in the future. A loving caring resepectful future for our children and their children's children.

Do I want to see two separate states in Cyprus No, but I also know that this is what we have come to have. And at the dismay of most Cypriots I am suggesting that they be equal in land mass as well as population, although this is difficult to implement as people in a democratic country can and have the right to choose where ever they wish. In my posts I have never stated that I did not wish for every refugee to have the right to return to their property, followed by coments such as, if they wish to do so, as I know that many will not, many have built lives in the south some in the north and some of us overseas.

What diffence does it make in a united Federated Nation if one state is 3000 square kilometres and the other 5000 or whatever the land mass is.

I know I am alone in this because all I am asking for is for justice and unity between all Cypriots including those that are neither Turkish Speaking nor Greek Speaking. What difference does it make if we are one people one nation that the aiport or the sea port is located to the north or the south, none, Cyprus is so small travelling is not an excuse. What difference does it make if in a one united Cyprus the governement compensates people for property to either build a football park, a hospital, an aiport, a park or whatever and yes a peace park (or have we been fuelled with so much hate that the thought of Unity, Love and Peace scares us). Are we that norrow minded that we can not see beyond our selfish needs and attachments to material possessions, for the betterment of our society.

What has little 7 year ols Mohammad, Ismir or who ever done to me or you or nayone else what has little 9 year old Kosta or Lefteris done to a Turksih Speaking Cypriot probably very little. Yet they are both victims of a crazy situation , some have been economically deprived for decades others have been deprived of the homeland. Do agree with economic isolation of Cypriots No I can see however where the RoC is coming from. Do I agree Refugees not having access to their home etc. NO, I do understand where they are at. They need homes to live in as you and I do. Imagine for a minute what a Turkish Speaking Cypriot family from near Paphos who moved to the North might be experiencing by knowing that if a solution is found that, they after 32 years of life they will be thrown out of the home they have been living in. You will argue undoubtedly what about the Greek Speaking Refugee living in a Turksih Speaking Cypriots house and has done so for the past 3 decades well same story.

The problem with Cyprus is that all Cypriots from both sides think they have been hard done by, by the other side. Yes sure..... how long do we all play victims to this crazy situation as opposed to working together to re-unite our nation our country our land. Victimisation has kept Cyprus divided for 3 decades and it will keep it as such for another 3 decades if we do not put the past behind and work toward a unified future. People make comments I wouldn't want my children speaking Turkish what a peasant view. Instead of embracing the fact that your child will have another language under their belt, you want to prevent and suppress it. Is that because if your child speaks Turkish they will be able to have better employment opportunities. Regardless or not Turkey will be a member of the EU and if a child can go and work as a diplomat in Turkey well hey that is fantastic opportunity and great if they speak Turkish but if you want your son/ daughter to be a shepheard in an isolated village in Cyprus well may be they don't need to know Turkish. It is right wing fascists attitudes that got us to where we are and unlees we make changes we will be fucked for many years to come.

PEACE may rain on Cyprus each and everyday!

[miltiades]

Humanist , reading your posts and those of kartel_aetos gives me hope and inspiration for a brighter future for our beloved Cyprus. It makes me so proud that the eloquent and educated CYPRIOTS do share a common cause and all aspire to an independent state encompassing Cypriots dedicated to the promotion of the grossly under rated identity of Cypriot nationals.
I have been an advocate of "Cypriotness " for most of my life and desire nothing more than for our people to live in peace with each other free from the demons of indoctrination perpetrated by the so called protectors of faith and national pride .The poison that infiltrated our youth and turned one against the other , the evil of besotted demagogues with perverted ideologies that caused immense suffering to our naturally peaceful loving decent people.

[Eliko]

Humanist, judging by the previous lengthy discussions, it doesn't appear that we will be getting our park in the buffer zone any time soon!