No my friend have we resolved our problems? settlers, refugees, army, political functionality, security etc , these were all addressed in the Annan plan but not to your liking so you rejected it.
The status quo will remain until both sides can agree a new plan or even going back to the 1960 agreements if that's what both sides want, but for now Turkey will keep the peace until we grow up and find a solution that both sides can commit to.
GREEK ATROCITIES 19TH & 20TH CENTURIES
by DT. » Thu Nov 16, 2006 5:00 pm
so you are saying that our properties and our land are simply held in escrow until a solution is found. Thats fine, why didn;t you say so?
Question, why announce a government if as you say Turkey is just keeping the peace until we agree on a solution?
Question, why announce a government if as you say Turkey is just keeping the peace until we agree on a solution?
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by Viewpoint » Thu Nov 16, 2006 5:07 pm
The property issue for many Tcs is not paramount, the political balance and security are far higher on the list of priorities. I personally believe all refugees should get their properties back where it is feasibly possible, those that cannot will have to settle for financial compensation.
The TRNC was necessary and binds TCs together, it gives us a form of identity and this is very evident from the fact that the majority of TCs prefer the TRNC will all its flaws to the "RoC" this must tell you something.
The TRNC was necessary and binds TCs together, it gives us a form of identity and this is very evident from the fact that the majority of TCs prefer the TRNC will all its flaws to the "RoC" this must tell you something.
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by zan » Fri Nov 17, 2006 10:50 am
Enlargement of the Occupation and more Atrocities
The Greeks made it clear from the first day that they had come, not far a temporary occupation, but a permanent annexation of Western Anatolia into a greater Greece encompassing both shores of the Aegean, thus bringing nearer the Megali Idea and the restoration of the departed glories of the Greek Christian Empire of Byzantium.8 A strong foundation was necessary for the establishment of lasting rule over the occupied land. Therefore, the Greeks commenced to penetrate into the interior of Anatolia.
During the advance of the Greek Army, the Greek soldiers and the local Greeks, who were incited by the Greek officers and clergy, committed innumerable atrocities against the Turks. The atrocities took the form of mass destruction in some towns. In particular, incidents during the first two months of the Greek military occupation were dreadful in the towns of Menemen and Aydin. These events were confirmed by the official reports of Turkish, British and Italian commissioners.
A Special Commission of Judicial Inquiry, established following the atrocity reports, reached Menemen on 17 June 1919. The Commission was composed of Turkish administrative and military officers, the British officers, Captain Charns and Lieutenant Lorimer, and medical delegates from the British and Italian consulates in Izmir. They presented a report to the commanders of the Allied Powers in Izmir. Some of the horrible details that were stated in this report are as follows:
...From the unanimous declaration of (persons) questioned separately by the Commission, it stands out clearly that the Mussulman population of Menemen gave a perfectly correct reception to the Hellenic occupying corps and that far from provoking them to the excesses, which would have been reprehensible in any case, it remained absolutely calm and tranquil. The Greek commandant's allegation regarding the shots fired on the Hellenic soldiers was denied upon oath by all the witnesses without exception. The non-existence of Greeks wounded, either civilian or military, as against a thousand Turkish victims, confirms the veracity of the evidence. The massacre, the destruction and the extortion committed at Menemen by the Hellenic soldiers and the native Greeks can only be imputed to a vile spirit of vengeance and cupidity...
...All sorts of people, women, girls, children down to babies, more than a thousand persons, were basely assassinated. During the few hours of its stay at Menemen, the Commission was able to draw up a list, which though incomplete, contains the names of more than five hundred unfortunate victims. The Hellenic agent, having opposed a thorough investigation, and the exhumation of the hundreds of corpses buried clandestinely by the Hellenic military authorities, the identity of the victims could not be established on the spot the same day...
... The Greeks, to hide the proof of their guilt, wanted to destroy the corpses. But the number of the latter being too great, for lack of time they piled them by tens into hastily dug trenches, insufficiently covered with earth...The massacres were not confined to the town. They extended also to the surroundings, to the fields, the mills, the farms where another thousand victims may be counted. All the buildings outside the town, as well as several hundreds of houses in the town itself, were pillaged, sacked or destroyed.5
The situation in Aydin was no different. Sukru Bey, the commander of the Turkish forces in the region, communicated the sequence of the atrocities to the commander of the Italian contingents if Cine, to be forwarded to the representative of Italy, the United States, Britain and France. Sukru Bey, in his letter of 1 July, revealed the terrifying results of the Greek occupation and begged immediate relief:
The Greeks who have occupied Aydin and the surrounding region have begun after a short period of calm, to practice with unheard savagery the policy of extermination of the Turkish element, with the object of being able to claim and annex these countries...The massacres, the abominable offences, the burning of whole villages and of Turkish quarters, all these crimes perpetrated by the Greeks constitute a disgrace in our era of civilisation. To have been victims of such odious acts, what faults could possibly have been committed by these women, children and poor, innocent people who were only going about their own business. They have been fired upon with bombs, rifles and machine guns. They have been cast into burning houses and burnt alive...Turkish travellers were taken out of the trains, the women and the young girls were violated before the eyes of their husbands and parents...
...I beg you to be so good as to inform the Great Powers of the Entente that we pray them in the name of humanity to restore calm and order to this country by putting an end to the ignoble regime of Greek adventurers and by withdrawing the Hellenic forces of occupation.5
However, the Great Powers, so called champions of humanity, were as inhuman and disgraceful as the Greeks as nothing has been done to stop the Greek atrocities.
The victims of these massacres were not only the Turks or the Muslims in general. The Greeks targeted everything and everyone that was not Greek. In Nazilli, between 19 and 20 June, 16 Jews were slaughtered besides hundreds of Turks. The Jewish houses and synagogues were set on fire as well as the Turkish houses and mosques.5 Such anti-Semitic acts were first practised in Izmir on 15 May. Some Greek soldiers plundered a number of Jewish shops during the incidents occurring that day. However, the British and French authorities warned and the Greek officers sentenced them. Within the interior of Anatolia, far from the Allies' eyes, the Greek army and the local Greeks did not differentiate between Muslim and Jewish targets.
The Attitude of the Great Powers towards the Greek Atrocities
The diplomatic, consular and military representatives of the Allies in Turkiye closely followed the Greek operations in Western Anatolia and communicated their observations to their headquarters abroad. Detailed reports of the atrocities and massacres in the Turkish towns and villages were often sent to the foreign capitals.
James Morgan, the British Consul General in Izmir, communicated to London on 11 July that the Greek artillery shelled two villages, killing 20 Turks, including women and children.15 Morgan informed the British authorities of another barbarous act of the Greek army in his report of 17 July. He wrote in his report that the Greek soldiers had arrested 37 Turkish soldiers and civilians. The corpses of these people were found later. The throats of the victims had been cut, all the bodies had been pierced by bayonets and their ears and lips had been torn off.15
Major Hadkinson of the British army gave dreadful details of the Greek slaughter in Ayvalik, Turgutlu and Nazilli in his report dated 4 July 1919. Hadkinson stated that the Greek soldiers had committed all sorts of crimes, particularly murder, rape, pillage and robbery. He continued by saying that innumerable dead bodies of the Turkish population from the occupied towns had been found outside of those towns.15
C.E.S. Palmer, a British diplomat, reported to the Foreign Office on 25 July that the Greek army had taken Turkish civilians as hostages, just as the German and Bolshevik armies had done during the War. He criticised the atrocities against the Turkish population.15
Palmer stated in his report of 1 August 1919, that the Greeks had killed 2,000 Turks in Aydin and it was difficult to find any excuse for the Greek excesses.15
The Americans in Turkiye were also sending reports on the Greek incursion and atrocities. W.L. Westermann, the American delegate to the Commission of Greek Claims at the Paris Peace Conference, recorded in a memorandum that, by the middle of June 1919, according to the reports from senior officials (such as the commanders of the American warships in Izmir, the Swedish Consul in Izmir and prominent American residents of the city) the Greek army and Greek officials in Izmir had been acting in a manner of semi-barbarity.3
The French and Italian delegates in Izmir sent notes to their high commissions in Istanbul on 12 July 1919, also emphasising the gravity of the situation the Greek occupation caused. The Allied delegates stated that the Greeks were not following the orders of the Allied Commander in Izmir, who, as the Allied Commander in Chief of the Izmir operation, was technically in command of the Greek forces. In fact, the Greek field officers ignored the orders of their own commanders and acted completely independently. As a result there was almost no control exercised over the troops in the field and none at all over the irregular forces operating in the front and flanks of the army. They had organised massacres of the Turkish population, engaged in simple banditry and settled wherever possible. It was recommended that the entire Greek force be recalled to the Izmir district.3
All of these reports and hundreds of others, combined with the complaints of Turkish officials, including a letter of protest sent by the Turkish Sheik-ul-Islam, the highest official of the Islamic clergy, and the news reports in the widely circulated European newspapers, brought the matter to the attention of the Council of the Heads of Delegations of the Paris Peace Conference. The members of the Council began to discuss seriously the Greek operations in Western Anatolia and try to discover the dimensions of the atrocities.
The Inter-Allied Commission of Inquiry
The Greeks made it clear from the first day that they had come, not far a temporary occupation, but a permanent annexation of Western Anatolia into a greater Greece encompassing both shores of the Aegean, thus bringing nearer the Megali Idea and the restoration of the departed glories of the Greek Christian Empire of Byzantium.8 A strong foundation was necessary for the establishment of lasting rule over the occupied land. Therefore, the Greeks commenced to penetrate into the interior of Anatolia.
During the advance of the Greek Army, the Greek soldiers and the local Greeks, who were incited by the Greek officers and clergy, committed innumerable atrocities against the Turks. The atrocities took the form of mass destruction in some towns. In particular, incidents during the first two months of the Greek military occupation were dreadful in the towns of Menemen and Aydin. These events were confirmed by the official reports of Turkish, British and Italian commissioners.
A Special Commission of Judicial Inquiry, established following the atrocity reports, reached Menemen on 17 June 1919. The Commission was composed of Turkish administrative and military officers, the British officers, Captain Charns and Lieutenant Lorimer, and medical delegates from the British and Italian consulates in Izmir. They presented a report to the commanders of the Allied Powers in Izmir. Some of the horrible details that were stated in this report are as follows:
...From the unanimous declaration of (persons) questioned separately by the Commission, it stands out clearly that the Mussulman population of Menemen gave a perfectly correct reception to the Hellenic occupying corps and that far from provoking them to the excesses, which would have been reprehensible in any case, it remained absolutely calm and tranquil. The Greek commandant's allegation regarding the shots fired on the Hellenic soldiers was denied upon oath by all the witnesses without exception. The non-existence of Greeks wounded, either civilian or military, as against a thousand Turkish victims, confirms the veracity of the evidence. The massacre, the destruction and the extortion committed at Menemen by the Hellenic soldiers and the native Greeks can only be imputed to a vile spirit of vengeance and cupidity...
...All sorts of people, women, girls, children down to babies, more than a thousand persons, were basely assassinated. During the few hours of its stay at Menemen, the Commission was able to draw up a list, which though incomplete, contains the names of more than five hundred unfortunate victims. The Hellenic agent, having opposed a thorough investigation, and the exhumation of the hundreds of corpses buried clandestinely by the Hellenic military authorities, the identity of the victims could not be established on the spot the same day...
... The Greeks, to hide the proof of their guilt, wanted to destroy the corpses. But the number of the latter being too great, for lack of time they piled them by tens into hastily dug trenches, insufficiently covered with earth...The massacres were not confined to the town. They extended also to the surroundings, to the fields, the mills, the farms where another thousand victims may be counted. All the buildings outside the town, as well as several hundreds of houses in the town itself, were pillaged, sacked or destroyed.5
The situation in Aydin was no different. Sukru Bey, the commander of the Turkish forces in the region, communicated the sequence of the atrocities to the commander of the Italian contingents if Cine, to be forwarded to the representative of Italy, the United States, Britain and France. Sukru Bey, in his letter of 1 July, revealed the terrifying results of the Greek occupation and begged immediate relief:
The Greeks who have occupied Aydin and the surrounding region have begun after a short period of calm, to practice with unheard savagery the policy of extermination of the Turkish element, with the object of being able to claim and annex these countries...The massacres, the abominable offences, the burning of whole villages and of Turkish quarters, all these crimes perpetrated by the Greeks constitute a disgrace in our era of civilisation. To have been victims of such odious acts, what faults could possibly have been committed by these women, children and poor, innocent people who were only going about their own business. They have been fired upon with bombs, rifles and machine guns. They have been cast into burning houses and burnt alive...Turkish travellers were taken out of the trains, the women and the young girls were violated before the eyes of their husbands and parents...
...I beg you to be so good as to inform the Great Powers of the Entente that we pray them in the name of humanity to restore calm and order to this country by putting an end to the ignoble regime of Greek adventurers and by withdrawing the Hellenic forces of occupation.5
However, the Great Powers, so called champions of humanity, were as inhuman and disgraceful as the Greeks as nothing has been done to stop the Greek atrocities.
The victims of these massacres were not only the Turks or the Muslims in general. The Greeks targeted everything and everyone that was not Greek. In Nazilli, between 19 and 20 June, 16 Jews were slaughtered besides hundreds of Turks. The Jewish houses and synagogues were set on fire as well as the Turkish houses and mosques.5 Such anti-Semitic acts were first practised in Izmir on 15 May. Some Greek soldiers plundered a number of Jewish shops during the incidents occurring that day. However, the British and French authorities warned and the Greek officers sentenced them. Within the interior of Anatolia, far from the Allies' eyes, the Greek army and the local Greeks did not differentiate between Muslim and Jewish targets.
The Attitude of the Great Powers towards the Greek Atrocities
The diplomatic, consular and military representatives of the Allies in Turkiye closely followed the Greek operations in Western Anatolia and communicated their observations to their headquarters abroad. Detailed reports of the atrocities and massacres in the Turkish towns and villages were often sent to the foreign capitals.
James Morgan, the British Consul General in Izmir, communicated to London on 11 July that the Greek artillery shelled two villages, killing 20 Turks, including women and children.15 Morgan informed the British authorities of another barbarous act of the Greek army in his report of 17 July. He wrote in his report that the Greek soldiers had arrested 37 Turkish soldiers and civilians. The corpses of these people were found later. The throats of the victims had been cut, all the bodies had been pierced by bayonets and their ears and lips had been torn off.15
Major Hadkinson of the British army gave dreadful details of the Greek slaughter in Ayvalik, Turgutlu and Nazilli in his report dated 4 July 1919. Hadkinson stated that the Greek soldiers had committed all sorts of crimes, particularly murder, rape, pillage and robbery. He continued by saying that innumerable dead bodies of the Turkish population from the occupied towns had been found outside of those towns.15
C.E.S. Palmer, a British diplomat, reported to the Foreign Office on 25 July that the Greek army had taken Turkish civilians as hostages, just as the German and Bolshevik armies had done during the War. He criticised the atrocities against the Turkish population.15
Palmer stated in his report of 1 August 1919, that the Greeks had killed 2,000 Turks in Aydin and it was difficult to find any excuse for the Greek excesses.15
The Americans in Turkiye were also sending reports on the Greek incursion and atrocities. W.L. Westermann, the American delegate to the Commission of Greek Claims at the Paris Peace Conference, recorded in a memorandum that, by the middle of June 1919, according to the reports from senior officials (such as the commanders of the American warships in Izmir, the Swedish Consul in Izmir and prominent American residents of the city) the Greek army and Greek officials in Izmir had been acting in a manner of semi-barbarity.3
The French and Italian delegates in Izmir sent notes to their high commissions in Istanbul on 12 July 1919, also emphasising the gravity of the situation the Greek occupation caused. The Allied delegates stated that the Greeks were not following the orders of the Allied Commander in Izmir, who, as the Allied Commander in Chief of the Izmir operation, was technically in command of the Greek forces. In fact, the Greek field officers ignored the orders of their own commanders and acted completely independently. As a result there was almost no control exercised over the troops in the field and none at all over the irregular forces operating in the front and flanks of the army. They had organised massacres of the Turkish population, engaged in simple banditry and settled wherever possible. It was recommended that the entire Greek force be recalled to the Izmir district.3
All of these reports and hundreds of others, combined with the complaints of Turkish officials, including a letter of protest sent by the Turkish Sheik-ul-Islam, the highest official of the Islamic clergy, and the news reports in the widely circulated European newspapers, brought the matter to the attention of the Council of the Heads of Delegations of the Paris Peace Conference. The members of the Council began to discuss seriously the Greek operations in Western Anatolia and try to discover the dimensions of the atrocities.
The Inter-Allied Commission of Inquiry
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by alexISS » Fri Nov 17, 2006 11:28 am
Zan, you forgot to post the source of the text you copy-pasted, I'll do it for you 
This article is based on a study titled "Greeks: The Democrats Who Are Not" by K. B. Raif and published by the Turkish Democracy Foundation in Ankara, September 1995.
http://www.atmg.org/GreekBarbarism.html
This article is based on a study titled "Greeks: The Democrats Who Are Not" by K. B. Raif and published by the Turkish Democracy Foundation in Ankara, September 1995.
http://www.atmg.org/GreekBarbarism.html
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by bg_turk » Wed Nov 22, 2006 12:18 am
Piratis wrote:1) Spread the Turkish propaganda with excuses about the illegalities they enforce in Cyprus.
Piratis, Viewpoint's intention in this forum is to spread her disgusting propaganda and she is attempting to mislead us all from the path of truth that you have so clearly charted for us.
2) Spread hate between GCs and TCs since this is what suits their interests best. The more the hate between the two communities the easier partition can be excused the better for the partitionists. This is why Viewpoint and some others are so provocative.
The Cyprus problem will be solved not when people like Viewpoint change their mind (this will never happen), but when these people will no longer have the power to enforce the illegalities and crimes.
Viewpoint wants to spread hate, whereas you Piratis, follow the ideals of peace and justice, the principles of equality and cooperation between the people in order to build a brighter future of a civilized Cyprus, where everybody's rights will be respected.
Viewpoint! You shameless partition. When will you finally realize that Piratis is right. Resistance is futile, prepare to be assimilated into Hellenism.
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bg_turk - Regular Contributor
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by Piratis » Wed Nov 22, 2006 3:11 am
Piratis, Viewpoint's intention in this forum is to spread her disgusting propaganda and she is attempting to mislead us all from the path of truth that you have so clearly charted for us.
The facts are there and they are undeniable. I shouldn't even need to remind some people the fact the Turkish occupation and the so called "TRNC" are illegal. These are facts accepted by all countries and organizations and the only ones who deny these facts are the partitionists.
How can we even have a constructive discussion when some people can not accept even the simplest facts? It is like trying to discuss the solar system with somebody that does not even accept that earth is round. Impossible.
Viewpoint wants to spread hate, whereas you Piratis, follow the ideals of peace and justice, the principles of equality and cooperation between the people in order to build a brighter future of a civilized Cyprus, where everybody's rights will be respected.
How else can the partitionists support their illegal criminal demands? They want to spread hate between the two communities so then they can come and say: "see, we hate each other, how can we then live together?".
Spreading hate between the two communities has been the number one priority of partitionists since the 50s.
On the other hand, people stop hating each other, and living peacefully together without racist discriminations is a possibility that the partitionists hate, since such development would remove one of their main excuses for the illegal occupation and partition.
I am not saying that Viewpoint and other partitionists are bad people. Unfortunately for them spreading hate is a means to an end (partition).
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by Viewpoint » Wed Nov 22, 2006 8:48 am
Piratis
We are all aware that you are pro reunificaiton and assimilation of TCs into a GC state due to their numerical superiority.
If people like me promote hate to ensure division, then prove us wrong show everyone that Cypriots can work and live together, go ahead you have every opportunity now the borders are open. What have you done in the last 3 years to improve relations? what have you done for TCs that would show them you do have their best interests at heart and that their worst fears of GC domination is unfounded. Go ahead...
Quoting reality is painful the day you see white as white is the day you may be able to address and solve the issues between our communities as forcing your opinions will never work.
On the other hand, people stop hating each other, and living peacefully together without racist discriminations is a possibility that the partitionists hate, since such development would remove one of their main excuses for the illegal occupation and partition.
We are all aware that you are pro reunificaiton and assimilation of TCs into a GC state due to their numerical superiority.
If people like me promote hate to ensure division, then prove us wrong show everyone that Cypriots can work and live together, go ahead you have every opportunity now the borders are open. What have you done in the last 3 years to improve relations? what have you done for TCs that would show them you do have their best interests at heart and that their worst fears of GC domination is unfounded. Go ahead...
I am not saying that Viewpoint and other partitionists are bad people. Unfortunately for them spreading hate is a means to an end (partition).
Quoting reality is painful the day you see white as white is the day you may be able to address and solve the issues between our communities as forcing your opinions will never work.
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Viewpoint - Leading Contributor
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by bg_turk » Wed Nov 22, 2006 6:14 pm
Viewpoint wrote:If people like me promote hate to ensure division, then prove us wrong show everyone that Cypriots can work and live together, go ahead you have every opportunity now the borders are open.
But Viewpoint how can you ever hate such a lovely and innocent person like, Piratis? A person so naive as to belive that only his truth is undeniable, only his laws legal, and only his point of view legitimate.
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