Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

mehmet, Viewpoint in another thread told us that borders are shaped by means of wars.

Nobody is plotting against TCs because they are Muslims. If anybody doesn't like TCs it is because they (the majority), along with Turkey, insist on illegalities and the violations of our human rights.

Every time I say that the Cyprus problem should be solved on the basis of democracy and human rights as they exist in any other EU country, this proposal is rejected because some hope they can gain on our loss because they "won the war".

If you (TCs is general, not you personally) play the game of war, hoping to gain on our loss by means of ethnic cleansing, then surely you should accept that at some point things might be reversed and you can fall in the grave that you were digging for us.

Here I am again asking for the illegalities to end, and for Cyprus to adopt a democratic system with respect to human rights and no racist discriminations. Would anybody listen this time? Or they will insist on the illegalities and the ethnic cleansing against us?

We can not bring the dead back from their graves, but the occupation and the illegalities can certainly end.

Whether I like it or not the Turkish army will stay in Cyprus until such time that Turkey sees it as advantageous to leave.

I agree with this.

The only way to achiev that is to embrace Turkey within democratic European structures. If Turkey is rejected it will strengthen the nationalists and in that situation you hav eno change in Cyprus.

With this i disagree. As long as Turkey gets everything she asks for she will have no reason to make any moves in the Cyprus problem. Only when keeping Cyprus under occupation will be too costly for her to handle Turkey will change her policies.

[mehmet]

Piratis,

thank you for the reply.

I use the term Muslim rather than Turkish Cypriot because some smart arse might remind me that some Turks were previously Greeks. I am already aware of that. But in historical context both Turkish and Greek muslims suffer the same fate in Crete and other places.

You say insist on illegality I say insist on physical security. If there is a formula for satisfying both sides of this we may get somewhere. Please don't tell me about numbers and statistics, the only thing that matters is that today we have generations of people who can recall incidents where there security was at risk, not from books but from their own experience. When people feel safe they can live together.

The ethnic cleansing must be reversed but I repeat if can't happen in a single step, do we have the leaders who can lead our people to a solution step by step or are we stiull hoping for the dramatic changes where 'winner takes all'.

The occupation and the illegalities will end when there is meaningful dialogue between RoC and Turkey, Turkey will not shit on the Turkish Cypriots (too many sacrifices have been made). If you insist on trying to humiliate Turkey then there will be no negotiated solution just stalemate then you are relying on the American empire to bail you out. And it you think the Iraqis can make trouble for the Americans just multiply it if they act against Turkey.

[Piratis]

You say insist on illegality I say insist on physical security.

They insist on illegality.

If you are afraid that some crazy driver can crash on you and kill you, you are not burning the cars of all drivers so nobody will be able to drive.

The illegal occupation is an indiscriminate violation of the human rights of all Greek Cypriots and the sovereignty of RoC. There can be no excuse for it.

Furthermore, how does it make a difference in the TCs "physical security" if most settlers leave, or if the TC state will be 18% (proportional to the TC population) instead of 29%+ etc. The reason no solution has been found so far is due to the outrageous demands of the Turkish side that shows no kind of respect towards us and are expecting that they should gain on our loss because they "won the war". It has nothing to do with their "physical security".

If some crazy fanatic is going to threaten the physical security of another person this will happen regardless of what they system will be, and can happen even now since 1000s of TCs cross to the south (and vice versa) every day.

As a popular song says "discrimination generates hate", and it is this hate that can potentially lead to violence. Therefore the physical security of all of us is best protected by a fair solution were the human rights of all are respected without racist discriminations.

[bg_turk]

The illegal occupation is an indiscriminate violation of the human rights of all Greek Cypriots and the sovereignty of RoC.

Which ones of your human rights exactly is the "illegal" occupation violating?
The government of the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus is actively pursuing a policy of finding fair remedies to all the internally displaced people, and to be successful it needs the cooperationg of Greek Cypriots as well. So far very few Greek Cypriots have decided to pursue their cases in the courts of the North, and you cannot blame the TRNC leadership for Greek Cypriot intransigence and paranoia.

As a popular song says "discrimination generates hate", and it is this hate that can potentially lead to violence. Therefore the physical security of all of us is best protected by a fair solution were the human rights of all are respected without racist discriminations.

How is the TRNC supposed to respect your human rights, when Loizidou is still refusing to return to her house in Kyrenia? Is that the TRNC's fault as well?

[bg_turk]

As a popular song says "discrimination generates hate", and it is this hate that can potentially lead to violence. Therefore the physical security of all of us is best protected by a fair solution were the human rights of all are respected without racist discriminations.

Hate is generated by your desire to destroy and eradicate the Turkish Cypriot State, just like the Nazis in World War II, and just like Iran is trying to destroy the state of Israel now.

[Kifeas]

As a popular song says "discrimination generates hate", and it is this hate that can potentially lead to violence. Therefore the physical security of all of us is best protected by a fair solution were the human rights of all are respected without racist discriminations.

Hate is generated by your desire to destroy and eradicate the Turkish Cypriot State, just like the Nazis in World War II, and just like Iran is trying to destroy the state of Israel now.

Bg_turk, there is no point in trying to make such idiotic comparisons! If this is your understanding of the "TRNC," then you are definitely out of touch with the realities of Cyprus. There is absolutely no relationship and no comparison between the two cases. The facts, conditions, merits and circumstances underlining Israel's establishment, were much different to those of the "TRNC."

[G.Man]

As a popular song says "discrimination generates hate", and it is this hate that can potentially lead to violence. Therefore the physical security of all of us is best protected by a fair solution were the human rights of all are respected without racist discriminations.

Hate is generated by your desire to destroy and eradicate the Turkish Cypriot State, just like the Nazis in World War II, and just like Iran is trying to destroy the state of Israel now.

Bg_turk, there is no point in trying to make such idiotic comparisons! If this is your understanding of the "TRNC," then you are definitely out of touch with the realities of Cyprus. There is absolutely no relationship and no comparison between the two cases. The facts, conditions, merits and circumstances underlining Israel's establishment, were much different to those of the "TRNC."

Slightly off topic, but so that justifies the atrocities and ethnic cleansing of the palestinians and the attacks on civilian targets in the lebanon does it?

Anyway, I agree with mehmet, although we should never forget the past, constant reminders do little to aid moving forward...

And thats on both sides...

[mehmet]

If there is no solution why not negotiate until you agree one? It's not crazy fanatices only that are a worry, they will exist in any case. That so few incidents have occurred tells you something about the ability of ordinary people to make their own contribution. We know the problems between 1960-63 regarding the composition of security forces. There is a balance of fear between the two states which affects the physical security of people.

[Kifeas]

If there is no solution why not negotiate until you agree one? It's not crazy fanatices only that are a worry, they will exist in any case. That so few incidents have occurred tells you something about the ability of ordinary people to make their own contribution. We know the problems between 1960-63 regarding the composition of security forces. There is a balance of fear between the two states which affects the physical security of people.

Not sure what you are trying to say here.

[mehmet]

Put simply, what I am saying is that people can be threatened by the security forces of a state as much as they can by an individual fanatic. Any solution has to have some safeguards that they will not be discriminated against (legally or by the police) on the basis of their first language. This is old ground that the 1960 constitution tried to address, unsuccessfully as events proved.