Cyprus-Forum.com

[zan]

Piratis,
You turned me, a peace loving person, a man with love and respect for his fellow man hate the Greeks. You alone are responsible for the hate I feel for your race. I hope you are proud of yourself for this achievement.

I can see from the above, that peace has not reached Cyprus yet.!!!

Mrfromng, it is in every person to hate another, whether he or she is from your own race or from another. You have every right to hate Piratis from what he writes that you disagree with, as hard as it is for me to understand, to be able to hate someone that you have not met or this person have not done anything to you directly, but solely on what he writes, that you do not like, but to hate the whole Greek race is beyond my comprehension.

I'm sorry to say this to a fellow Turkish Cypriot who has suffered similar unpleasant childhood as myself in 1963-64, but this makes you a racist at the highest level, when you make such statements. The truth is, from what I have read from your past posts, that you're not a racist, but a person who loses control when getting angry at one person, even hating that persons remarks, makes a giant leap in making a stupid remarks, as you made above.

I can only think of one way to take that "racist" statement back, and that is to ask for forgiveness from those who have read it. I hate to think what went through Miltiades's mind, a person that you have interacted with recently, who spoke very positive of you or Andri_cy, that you wanted to meet in the States couple of months ago.

To hate a race is to hate yourself, and I do not think, that you hate yourself. I'll leave it with you, to think it over.

I don't believe that Mrfromng quite knew what he was saying there so I cannot be as harsh in my comments.

Mrfromng, you must stay focused on whom you are talking to on these forums. I have always been against blanket hate as you have stated in your post and because I believe you do not truly feel that way I cannot take it seriously. If you are starting to feel that way then stop and think. It is not a healthy way to react to a single person that is hell bent on destroying your sensibility. Lets leave that much hate to others.

[Piratis]

Kikapu, for partitionists, everything and anything will be an excuse for "this is why partition is better".

Personally I have never attacked TCs as a whole, not even Turks as a whole. I simply speak in a very strong way against the leadership of Turkey and their puppets, which is as a matter of fact undemocratic and is acting illegally and hostile against my country.

If that makes some people to hate me, or even worst, hate my whole race, this tells something about those people, not about me.

I am in this forum long enough to be able to distinguish the people that come here for genuine discussions because they are interested in a fair for all solution, and the people that are coming here having as one sole aim to excuse the occupation and promote partition.

[zan]

Kikapu, for partitionists, everything and anything will be an excuse for "this is why partition is better".

Personally I have never attacked TCs as a whole, not even Turks as a whole. I simply speak in a very strong way against the leadership of Turkey and their puppets, which is as a matter of fact undemocratic and is acting illegally and hostile against my country.

If that makes some people to hate me, or even worst, hate my whole race, this tells something about those people, not about me.

I am in this forum long enough to be able to distinguish the people that come here for genuine discussions because they are interested in a [b]fair for all[/b] solution, and the people that are coming here having as one sole aim to excuse the occupation and promote partition.

I think you need to do a rethink on this ability you boast of Piratis because the evidence of your intransigence is all over this forum. You show no understanding of others peoples' point of view. You do not want to discuss you want to dictate. There is a vast chasm of difference in between.

[Piratis]

I show no understanding to the "point of view" that illegalities and human rights violations should be tolerated.

Would you tolerate it if somebody was showing no kind of respect to you and he demanded that the crimes and illegalities against you are "fair" and that it is no problem if your human rights are violated?

Personally I ask for the exact same things for both TCs and GCs: Democracy, human rights, legality, no racist discriminations. I want for each TC citizen to have exactly what each GC has. This is why I always propose guaranteed proportional representation for TCs at all levels, even that of the president, by proposing that 1 every 5 presidents should be a TC!

I want to take nothing away from TCs, I fully respect them, and I demand that my human and democratic rights are respected as well.

Therefore any discussions should be made within the framework of democracy, human rights, and equality of all Cypriots without racist discriminations. The discussions of the type "We (Turks) won the war so now you evil GCs the only thing you can do is to beg us to give you a bit of land back" kind of "viewpoint" I do not accept and no discussion can be based on that.

[zan]

I show no understanding to the "point of view" that illegalities and human rights violations should be tolerated.

Would you tolerate it if somebody was showing no kind of respect to you and he demanded that the crimes and illegalities against you are "fair" and that it is no problem if your human rights are violated?

Personally I ask for the exact same things for both TCs and GCs: Democracy, human rights, legality, no racist discriminations. I want for each TC citizen to have exactly what each GC has. This is why I always propose guaranteed proportional representation for TCs at all levels, even that of the president, by proposing that 1 every 5 presidents should be a TC!

I want to take nothing away from TCs, I fully respect them, and I demand that my human and democratic rights are respected as well.

Therefore any discussions should be made within the framework of democracy, human rights, and equality of all Cypriots without racist discriminations. The discussions of the type "We (Turks) won the war so now you evil GCs the only thing you can do is to beg us to give you a bit of land back" kind of "viewpoint" I do not accept and no discussion can be based on that.

What you propose sound fair in theory but to me does not sound fair in practice. You seem to make it sound as if we are all angels and nothing will go wrong. I don’t have that faith and that is what shapes my view. I am not saying that all the GCs will be out to get me and mine but that I don’t trust any system to deliver all it says it is going to deliver. History throughout the world has shown that time and time again. What makes you think that it will be different this time.

[Viewpoint]

Piratis

Personally I ask for the exact same things for both TCs and GCs: Democracy, human rights, legality, no racist discriminations. I want for each TC citizen to have exactly what each GC has.

We have all heard it before, you reapeat them like a parrot time and time again but you have no concrete ideas of how to get there and avoid addressing any of the real issues before you as you have to face certain realities which do not suit you.

[Piratis]

You seem to make it sound as if we are all angels and nothing will go wrong.

Things can go wrong within certain limits. Cyprus is an EU state now. However much more things can go wrong if instead of a fair solution we continue to be at war (there is a cease fire right now, but the war that started in 1974 is not over) and the illegalities fuel more and more hate between the two communities.

Therefore by agreeing on a fair solution we make it 99% certain that our children will live in peace in a democratic EU country, were if that doesn't happen the chances that our children will pass from another hell is far greater.

We have all heard it before, you reapeat them like a parrot time and time again but you have no concrete ideas of how to get there and avoid addressing any of the real issues before you as you have to face certain realities which do not suit you.

I have many ideas on how to get there. In the past I have started a few threads asking if we all agree that this is the "there" we want to get.

It is very easy to get there if we all want to get there. However it is obvious that you Viewpoint don't want to get there. What you want is partition or a form of it. You do not want one united Cypriot people without racist discriminations. You want 2 separated communities, just loosely associated in the way that is more closely to the "unity" that Ireland and Lithuania have within EU, rather than unity as it exists between the citizens of single countries.

Here is again a quote from Sevgul which is relevant to how some TCs (like Viewpoint) realize "unity":

The main problem concerning `reunification` of the island for the mainstream Turkish Cypriot media is that it is subconsciously based on `two separate entities coming together`, not seeing that this is a remnant of `Taksim` policies… The focus is on `Bizonality` and with this, the `legitimization` of `the results of 1974`… No one is contesting that any future cooperation of our communities should be based on multiculturalism, rather than on the `hegemony` of the Greek Cypriot community in all fields… But how `bizonality` is perceived is a big problem because deep down, the ideology of `Taksim` is still there and has not been wiped out from the subconscious thinking of `duality` and `separatism` from the minds of some mainstream Turkish Cypriot journalists.

[bg_turk]

Personally I have never attacked TCs as a whole, not even Turks as a whole.

You must of course be kidding.

[Viewpoint]

Piratis

I have many ideas on how to get there. In the past I have started a few threads asking if we all agree that this is the "there" we want to get.

But to date all we have read from you are policies to reduce the TC community and ill put it in your own famous words "just another minority" with rights accordingly.

However it is obvious that you Viewpoint don't want to get there. What you want is partition or a form of it. You do not want one united Cypriot people without racist discriminations. You want 2 separated communities, just loosely associated in the way that is more closely to the "unity" that Ireland and Lithuania have within EU, rather than unity as it exists between the citizens of single countries.

Have we not agreed in 1975 and which your current leader quotes today a BBF, this is whats on the table Piratis, any unification solution will be based on this ideology unless both sides agree to anything different which is very unlikely at this rate. You have to realize that there will be 2 sides label them what you want but the end unification product will be 2 states joined at the top to create one country on a shared basis. Each will have their local administration and be represented at the upper governmental level. Its here we encounter problems as to the balance and the issue of one side dominating the other to the detriment of the community. If your "ideas" on how to get there are able to solve this problem without downgrading the effectiveness of either community to influence decisions that will effect them negative then by all means let us read them and understand where you are coming from.
The land and settlers issue imo is far easier to solve than the balance in power sharing as neither side appear to want to let go of ruling themselves and form a partnership where they will be accountable and have to work closely with the other community.

As far as I understand from your posts your utopia is a unitary state where the majority rule and can whatever they wish as long as they have the majority vote which they always will considering that in Cyprus like tend to stick with like when push comes to shove. (eg enosis). You constantly quote democracy and human rights for all Cypriots which is very nice on paper but the important issue is how will these rights be administered, by the majority? a shared system? how will strike the correct balance? The above ideology is for TCs a death warrant into assimilation into the majority and will in time cause and erosion of TCs into everything Greek on Cyprus. Survival for us is having our space (not excluding those that GCs that want to live with us) to run our own affairs where we can flourish and grow, the opportunity to live first hand the good intentions of the GC community and develop into a community which who knows will move onto getting rid of many taboos and wanting to live in a unitary state. Your utopia cannot be forced and may come in time but steps have to be taken and actions have show that neither side is interested in dominating or controlling the other.

Lets hear your ideas on how to get there, if you allow for a solution to be based on a BBF foundation.

[stuballstu]

Sotos wrote

Quote:
Should the supporters of EOKA-B , which include the current president Papadopolous


You do realize you are an ignorant fool don't you? Papadopoulos a supporter of EOKA-B??

Thanks Sotos never been called that before!

Piratis wrote

Quote:
This is a very hypocritical statement. It was in fact Greek Cypriots who were working for the destruction of the ROC by way of their ideology of Enosis. Should the supporters of EOKA-B , which include the current president Papadopolous, be also treated in a "very strict way"? Surely they too where working for the destruction of the ROC?



As Sotos said you are clueless regarding Papadopoulos. He was a close associate of Makarios and had nothing to do with EOKA-B.

EOKA-B was dismantled, and Samson was jailed. Now even those that were involved don't even dare to admit it.

Therefore we have dealt with that minority of GCs that went against democracy. Now we also have to deal with that minority of TCs that continue doing the same since before the 60s.

So Piratis and Sotos. Are you both in denial that the current president was a member of EOKA-B?

Was it not Mr Papadopolous himself who delivered a message to the American Embassy in Nicosia that if Turkey came near Cyprus they could inhialate Turkish Cypriots in 45 mins?

No wonder it is never spoken about Piratis as he would be sent to jail according to what you say.

Piratis very interesting that you mention democracy. Correct me if I am wrong ( I have no doubts you will anyway). Was it not Makarios who wanted to change the constitution of Cyprus? By democracy the TC's said no which in turn led to no TC representative in the parliament.

As i said earlier i didn't want to get into a " the gc's started it, ohh no they didn't slagging match" as what has happened can not be changed.

What i would like to know in the opinion of you and Sotos is what exactly has your president done about solving the Cyprob? What has he offered to the TC community? What is his plan to integrate TC's and GC's into a truely "Cypriot" society? Why couldn't your president say to the UN this is what we think is wrong with the Annan plan, change this and we will put it to the people?