Cyprus-Forum.com

[turkcyp]

I hope your remark about Karpas was a joke.

Given the current situation we find ourselves in as TCs, it actually was not a joke. Who can we trust know? Our fellow GCs who had used every opportunity since to stick it to us, or our belowed Turkey who had been using us and Cyprus to get whatever you want.

The situation in Cyprus has seized to be a strugle between GCs and TCs, but it has turned out to be a fight between RoC and Turkey right now. in teh previous scenrio being teh weak side in Cyprus we always trusted Turkey that when time comes they will come and save us from being domintaed by GCs and being slowly exterminated by GCs. And in 1974 they did that.

But after 30 years, right now it is now a different ball game. When it comes to choosing between us and its own people, Turkey will definetly choose thier own. That is the onlu reason why RoC have been pushing the world to accept Turkey as their negotiation partner instead of us.

And funally it has happened, I say we as TCs should start finding ourselves new allies. Otherwise 20 years downs the road, there will not be one TC living in the face of the island. Which is not necesarilly bad in itself. But what makes it worse that, all these TCs all around teh world would be worse than waht they are right now, economically, and culturally.

So I say everything is fari game for us right now. And simply I am saying that I do not believe in Annan Plan anymore as well. I used to support Annan Plan, thinking that GCs at the end got rid of the idea of eradicating TCs from this island. But I now know I was wrong.

So I choose being dominated by USA then GCs. As simple as that.

Have a good day,

[mehmet]

Turkcyp,

have some more faith in the future. The Turkish government are not going to flush us down the toilet for the sake of EU. Not just because of the military, people have lost lives for Turkish Cypriots, their families are not going to stand by in silence. Even though they may not be there for us any more they regard northern Cyprus as theirs. Sure they will trade it if the price is good, but don't be so sure that what Turkey wants is for sale anyway. There is still a lot of uncertainty.

If I was Papadopoulos I would think it was better to deal with the problem rather than wait for someone else to present another solution. As other forum members have said, we are running out of time.

[insan]

There is nothing on the declaration that Turkey should recognize RoC. The only thing that the document says that Turkey should extend its customs union to new 10 members.

Don't forget that she has to complete this task until October 2005.

Turkey got what she want. Got a negotiation date for EU membership without a veto. And they know that they will use Cyprus card until they become a Eu member.

For Turkey to start negotiations in October, depends upon the solution of Cyprus problem. If the Cyprus problem has not been solved untill October; most probably the negotiations process will be suspended untill the problem is solved because the condition of starting to negotiate is recognizing RoC either as it is current form or an united federation if the problem has been solved, of course.

So this brings us to the other scenario that we have discussed in teh other topic. There will not be a solution to Cyprus for another 10-15 years, and it will only be solved simultaneously with Turkish accesion to EU.

This is also depends upon the ruling and leading elites of Turks and Hellens... There are some justifiable demands of Hellen side. If Turkish side accept those demands and make a gesture to improve the Annan Plan and satisfy majority of GCs; I'm sure this time noone listens what Papadopulos says...

All the TCs should start thinking who they can trust now. They learned that they could not trust GCs in 1963, and in year 2004 they learned that they can not trust Turkey as well. So as a small society they should start looking for new allies. May be we should offer the whole Karpas peninsula as a military base to USA.

Sorry but this is ridiculous... How you can be sure of that you won't be disappointed by US? Is it the year 2004 that we've learnt Turkey wasn't teustworthy or long before that when some Turkish governments together with some Turkish Cypriot "lads" imported thousands of settlers and as a consequence, North Cyprus invaded by cheaper labourers from Turkey and most of the TCs became jobless then fled the other countries. On the other hand, the ones TCs have never trusted in South of the Island are not the GCs but vast majority of their ruling and leading elites. When someone points majority GC community as the responsible of past events or not trustworthy really irritates me so much. Denktash is one of the well known who behave like this...

If we had done that 15 years ago when USA was asking, there would not be Cyprus problem right now.

Yeah... We would have faced with a bigger problem, for sure... The Islamic Fundamentalist terrorists would everyday blast another corner of North Cyprus with their suicide commandos...

Everybody have a good day,

You too...

[turkcyp]

Don't forget that she has to complete this task until October 2005.

Turkey will have no problem doing that. Long before October 2005 Turkey will be in customs union with RoC. Recognition is completley another subject.

For Turkey to start negotiations in October, depends upon the solution of Cyprus problem. If the Cyprus problem has not been solved untill October; most probably the negotiations process will be suspended untill the problem is solved because the condition of starting to negotiate is recognizing RoC either as it is current form or an united federation if the problem has been solved, of course.

This is also depends upon the ruling and leading elites of Turks and Hellens... There are some justifiable demands of Hellen side. If Turkish side accept those demands and make a gesture to improve the Annan Plan and satisfy majority of GCs; I'm sure this time noone listens what Papadopulos says...

That is a possibility, but a very rare one. RoC do not want a solution in Cyprus thorugh UN negotiations or any kind of bizonla federal solution. So they will come up with such demands even you can not accepts.

They know that they can get whatever they want along the way from Turkey during its 10+ years of EU accesion talks. At the end they have the key to let Turkey in, so they will use it. This brings us to my conclusion that Cyprus will only solved simultaneosly at the same tiem with Turkeys EU entry.

Sorry but this is ridiculous... How you can be sure of that you won't be disappointed by US?

I cant be so sure. But I rather take my chances with them rather than GCs.

Is it the year 2004 that we've learnt Turkey wasn't teustworthy or long before that when some Turkish governments together with some Turkish Cypriot "lads" imported thousands of settlers and as a consequence, North Cyprus invaded by cheaper labourers from Turkey and most of the TCs became jobless then fled the other countries.

You know the expression that says "Denize duzen yilana sarilir". We have paid the price for getting our ass saved.

On the other hand, the ones TCs have never trusted in South of the Island are not the GCs but vast majority of their ruling and leading elites. When someone points majority GC community as the responsible of past events or not trustworthy really irritates me so much. Denktash is one of the well known who behave like this...

Keep dreaming in your warm and pinkish world. You really think that only GCs rulling elites we can not trust, but GC as community is trustworthy. Those who see injustice and does nothing are not trusted as well. Isn't this the same GC community that keeps on electing the same "Hellen elites" as you call them over and over. In democracies, people are ruled as they deserve to be ruled.

If the opinion of rulling GCs did not have founding in the GC sommunity they would not be elected.

Let's not fool oursleves.

Yeah... We'll face with a bigger problem, for sure... The Islamic Fundamentalist terrorists would everyday blast another corner of North Cyprus with their suicide commandos...

I said it earlier. I took my chances with them, instead of so called European GCs.

You too...

Hey. I said it first.

[pantelis]

Thank you Insan!

[erolz]

For Turkey to start negotiations in October, depends upon the solution of Cyprus problem. If the Cyprus problem has not been solved untill October; most probably the negotiations process will be suspended untill the problem is solved because the condition of starting to negotiate is recognizing RoC either as it is current form or an united federation if the problem has been solved, of course.

That is not how I understand the result of yesterdays negotiations. Turkey is required to sign (extend) the customs union with RoC by the start date. There is no specific condition they recognised the RoC formally and politicaly by that date.

[Alexandros Lordos]

That is not how I understand the result of yesterdays negotiations. Turkey is required to sign (extend) the customs union with RoC by the start date. There is no specific condition they recognised the RoC formally and politicaly by that date.

What you say is true, in my estimation however the obligation to extend the customs union is sufficiently "unpleasant" for Turkey to give her a motivation to solve the Cyprus Problem, if possible before next October.

[erolz]

What you say is true, in my estimation however the obligation to extend the customs union is sufficiently "unpleasant" for Turkey to give her a motivation to solve the Cyprus Problem, if possible before next October.

Yes I agree. Turkey has been given 'breathing space'. It seems to me that the EU hope is for a new attempt at a settlement to 'unblock' the Cyprus aspect from Turkey's accession process and make recognition of a post settlement RoC a non issue. This is essentialy the same approach that the EU took with the previous Annan plan. However this time the EU has the benefit of 'hindsight'. I believe that before the first vote on the Annan plan the perception in the EU (right or worng) was that it was the Turkish Cypriot side that had ultimately block a solution in the past. I think this time round the preception in the EU will be considerably different. I think Turkey will be expected to make concessions on the previous draft of the Annan plan but not on it's basic principals and be expect to do all that it can to 'ensure' a yes vote from the TC people (which I beleive it did last time round). I also think that this time round the EU will also use all the means it can to 'persuade' the GC side to accept such a modifed plan, upto and including implicit (or even explicit) 'threats' of indivdual EU countries formaly recognising the TRNC should they reject a new plan.

[insan]

Yes I agree. Turkey has been given 'breathing space'. It seems to me that the EU hope is for a new attempt at a settlement to 'unblock' the Cyprus aspect from Turkey's accession process and make recognition of a post settlement RoC a non issue. This is essentialy the same approach that the EU took with the previous Annan plan. However this time the EU has the benefit of 'hindsight'. I believe that before the first vote on the Annan plan the perception in the EU (right or worng) was that it was the Turkish Cypriot side that had ultimately block a solution in the past. I think this time round the preception in the EU will be considerably different. I think Turkey will be expected to make concessions on the previous draft of the Annan plan but not on it's basic principals and be expect to do all that it can to 'ensure' a yes vote from the TC people (which I beleive it did last time round). I also think that this time round the EU will also use all the means it can to 'persuade' the GC side to accept such a modifed plan, upto and including implicit (or even explicit) 'threats' of indivdual EU countries formaly recognising the TRNC should they reject a new plan.

I totaly agree with your perceptions, erolz.

[brother]

Look out the u.s.a is coming with new plans soon to solve the problem and i have one thing to say 'god help the one who says no this time'.