Cyprus-Forum.com

[mehmet]

Piratis,

Papadopoulos is a leader of a government, not the leader of opposiion to a government. It's not for him to sit around in his house until someone give him a Plan he wants. Don't you even expect him to even try to suggest some proposals which would satisfy him in his position. It seems to me you don't expect much from your politicians.

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[insan]

If European leaders wanted so much Turkey to be part of the EU they wouldn't put all those conditions to Turkey. The fact is that most Europeans would NOT like Turkey to become a full member. If you can not see this, then you are blind.

The ones in EU that don't want Turkey to be a part of EU are mainly the Christian democrats. So, making over generalisations about EU leaders doesn't make any sense, Piratis. The Kopenhagen criterions cannot be different for some EU candidate countries. Sometimes some demands of EU may seem like out of Kopenhage criterium but if the issues have relations in any degree, with the Kopenhagen criteriums; this also makes those issues a hitch infront of the candidate country but not as a criterion of Kopanhagen.


If you can't see these, Piratis you may have problems with your eyes and ears. But most probably you may have a problem with your mentality...

[magikthrill]

The Kopenhagen criterions cannot be different for some EU candidate countries.

They can be if "some" EU candidate countries are illegally occupying an EU member state. oh and

[pantelis]

Ultimately it will shift to the point where the EU seeks other 'less ideal' ways of removing the block (with the obvious one being formal recognition of the TRNC as an independent sovreign state by EU members and others).

Erol,
Personally, I wouldn't mind the above scenario. The TC would stop living in a place of lawlessness and the EU laws and norms would apply to the entire island. It will be up to the TCs to ask the Turkish troops to stay or go, then. At the same time, the GC would be able to claim back their properties in the north part of the island, through the European courts. Their cases this time will be against the TC state, not Against Turkey.

Do you think that Turkey will ever stop controlling, openly or from behind the scenes, the TC "administrations"? I do not think I am going to live, to see the date! A truly independent TC state, is something Turkey will never permit to happen. The TCs will always be an extension of Anatolia, to the Turkish elite, directly or indirectly, in order to serve the Turkish interests first, and then the interests of the TCs, imo.

[insan]

They can be if "some" EU candidate countries are illegally occupying an EU member state. oh and

It is obvious that, if one of the responsible of the ongoing occupation is Turkish side; there's no doubt the other is Hellen side. As long as the Hellen side insists to be the sole ruler of Cyprus, there will be no solution and Turkey will keep maintain her troops in North until the Hellen side accept TCs as one of the politicaly equal partner of Cyprus or an agreed partition. EU and whole world also are aware of this situation. This is the reason why Cyprus related issues cannot be considered as obligations directly related with Kopenhagen criterions for Turkey but of course they are hitches in front of Turkey, on EU road. They are also hitches for Hellens as two of the members of EU.

[erolz]

Erol,
Personally, I wouldn't mind the above scenario. The TC would stop living in a place of lawlessness and the EU laws and norms would apply to the entire island. It will be up to the TCs to ask the Turkish troops to stay or go, then. At the same time, the GC would be able to claim back their properties in the north part of the island, through the European courts. Their cases this time will be against the TC state, not Against Turkey.

I think however Papadopolus (and many GC) might find such a 'solution' a bit hard tio reconcile with their previous wishes? After all if such a senario is not such an anethma for GC in general why has it never been proposed?
In my proposed senario EU member states would not be able to 'threaten' to recognise the TRNC and admit it into the EU - because RoC will still have a veto on any such entry (unless they deem it to already be in the EU even as a seperate recognised state, which I do not think would be possible?). However even if the TRNC was recognised as a seperate state and was admitted to the EU I do not think that would guarantee GC being able to claim back properties. At best they could sue the TRNC for their loss and at worst they would not be able to even do that. Why has the Irish republic not tried to use the EU courts to claim back NI (or Irish citizens whoses familys lost land to the British do similar), or spain claim back Gibralter. It seems to me and I may well be wrong that any formal recognition of the TRNC would spell the end of any chance of GC returning to property lost in 74, and very much reduce the chance of compensation as well.

Do you think that Turkey will ever stop controlling, openly or from behind the scenes, the TC "administrations"? I do not think I am going to live, to see the date! A truly independent TC state, is something Turkey will never permit to happen. The TCs will always be an extension of Anatolia, to the Turkish elite, directly or indirectly, in order to serve the Turkish interests first, and then the interests of the TCs, imo.

I do not think that Turkeys strategic interest in Cyprus is likley to disapear any time soon. However I think that Turkey would be 'happy' for the rest of the world to recognise the TRNC as a sovereign state. If this were to happen the links between the TRNC and Turkey would not disapear and neither would Turkey's ability to influence decisions made in the TRNC disapear. It may require a less direct control over events in the TRNC, but I suspect that enough control would remain to meet Turkeys strategic requirments, especially if it offered a way of removing Cyprus from the Turkish EU accsession talks. My understanding is that Turkeys' primary startegic interest in Cyprus was to not have it under direct or indirect control of Greece, rather than to have it under their own control per se. Under British control was acceptable to them. Under control of a shared GC / TC adminstration was acceptable to them (imo). Having it under sole GC control was not / is not strategicaly acceptable to them. Least thats how I percieve things.

[insan]

My understanding is that Turkeys' primary startegic interest in Cyprus was to not have it under direct or indirect control of Greece, rather than to have it under their own control per se. Under British control was acceptable to them. Under control of a shared GC / TC adminstration was acceptable to them (imo). Having it under sole GC control was not / is not strategicaly acceptable to them. Least thats how I percieve things.

I completely agree with this point of view....

[brother]

Why do GC blindly follow tassos when to date he has achieved NOTHING but go on national t.v and cry like a baby, or is the strength of his leadership people feeling sorry for him.

By then way did he cry to get the top job too.

[michalis5354]

As long as you have R.Denkatsh to determine your future and your leader - I guess you have no right to judge Papadopoulos - Othewise its like not seeing yourlsef in the mirror!

[michalis5354]

do not think that Turkeys strategic interest in Cyprus is likley to disapear any time soon. However I think that Turkey would be 'happy' for the rest of the world to recognise the TRNC as a sovereign state. If this were to happen the links between the TRNC and Turkey would not disapear and neither would Turkey's ability to influence decisions made in the TRNC disapear

Thanks for claryfing that Turkey has the ultimate control of TCs and all these arguments about independe state for TCs are all B*****