Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

The occupation is what is happening today!!

Thank god the rest of the world know the reason for this. A good majority justify it too.

So where does that leave you? In the sh*t you are in today.

Mrfromng, mentally you are 3 year old. Do you even believe the imaginary crap that you say? Yes the world knows the reason, that is why no country recognized the pseudo state that Turkey created in occupied Cyprus, and all countries recognize RoC as the one and only legal state in Cyprus.

Klik, are you a distant relative of mrfromng? Your mentality sounds the same like him. Fortunately there are very few GCs like you that support illegalities and crimes like the ones of EOKA B.

You should only remember that what is right for Cyprus is only up to the Cypriots citizens (GCs,TCs,Armenians, Latins,Maronites, everybody else who has the CY citizenship) to decide in a democratic way. Any actions by any group of Cypriots that force their will on all other Cypriots in an undemocratic way is criminal, fascist, and will not be tolerated again.

[Klik]

I do not support EOKA B' or EOKA... I just stated that they were more succesful in their act. That's why I even said that I have relatives that were EOKA members, because I was talking against their ideals...

Yes, Democracy is the way... But how can they be described as Cypriots, when it's a known fact(hopefully) that they are descendants of the Ottoman army since 1570!?!

I'd accept an Armenian calling himself as Cypriot, because his ancestors moved here in decency, and caused no trouble, but only gave friendship.
We are still fighting with the Turks living in the north...

I'll give you a date to remember, which I hope you didn't forget.

1996

Tasos Isaak
Solomos Solomou

These people were killed by Cypriots as you say....

I repeat myself, Cypriots my ass...

[Viewpoint]

Klik your brain into gear its either your lack of English or idiotic stance that re-confirms why there should never be reunificaiton on this island, Kilk must be a reincarnation of some of the other fanatics we have had come and go or does really represent the thoughts of many GCs. Which should serve as an example of the mentality in the south which has not changed and will ensure that TCs are supressed under GC administered Democracy and human rights in a united Cyprus.

[Alexis]

Alexis, I hope you don't mind me saying but that comment about me not mentioning in detail about GC deaths is uncalled for. If I am talking to someone here, or any other forum, that I think would have to have those obvious points made to them, then I would but as I appreciated that you personally would already have known those facts I left them out. I am not in the business of claiming numbers make a blind bit of difference to the situation we find our selves in today. All this could have happened yesterday with only a broken finger nail to show for it and it would not make a difference. The sticking point is where do we go from here. My thoughts differ from yours, it seems, only on this point.

As for genocide then yes if what the Greeks did is genocide then the same goes for the Turks and visa versa. If we agree that it was an act of war then ditto. These words are used as a defence against the accusation and I will be seen to use them as needed. Otherwise they mean nothing. The point is people were killed.

Hi Zan,

Having read most of your posts there is no doubt in mind that you understand the events of 1963-1974, so I am sorry if I came across a bit unfairly. I do get agitated though when the Cyprus Problem is continually classed as history starting in 1963 for TCs and 1974 for GCs especially by non-Cypriots, the point is the Cyprob is not as black and white as that and to see its roots you need to go as far back as the 1920s and folow the history of Greece and Turkey as well.

You are quite right that people were killed - and this should never be forgotten. The prevailing point I am trying to put across (without getting engrossed in the details) is that I feel it is destructive to draw parallels between a 'genocide' such as the holocaust and the type of conflict and attrocities that we have seen in Cyprus. And in this respect the absolute numbers that were killed is important. In the UK if you talk about genocide you conjure up images of death camps, systematic amassing and transportation of people to camps, slave labour and the like. As you (and I) pointed out some aspects of this has happened at times during the Cyprus conflict but at nowhere near the scale or the planned and systematic approach that would make it genocide, and that was my main point. I am not going to sit here and argue against the fact that entire TC villages were wiped out or that there were individuals (we know Samson for sure) that would have liked to wipe out the TC population, I am here to talk about the facts of what happened in Cyprus and to look forward into the future. The problem comes with reconciliation. How are we possibly going to reconcile our differences when we accuse each other of the most heinous crimes known to man? Is it not good enough for us to put the past behind and rebuild for a prosperous future, but knowing the scale of exactly what did happen in the past? Accusations of genocide only make it easier for people to justify other crimes and the need for some kind of vengeance or reparations. Recognising that we have wronged each other, in different ways perhaps, but that we were not the only ones to suffer or to have made mistakes that lead to suffering of others and acknowledging this is the only way forward.
I also agree that numbers make no blind bit of difference today and that if even one person was killed it means that the matter is utterly serious. Where numbers do make a difference is in defining whether something is genocide or not. Anyways, enough about genocide it is neither constructive nor (in this case imo) accurate.

[Piratis]

that re-confirms why there should never be reunificaiton on this island

Viewpoint, some facts about you:
1) you want partition
2) you support the continuation of the illegalities by the Turkish army in Cyprus
3) you support the illegal "trnc" on the land stolen by Turkey from Republic of Cyprus
4) you support the violation of the human rights of all Greek Cypriots
5) You want to keep the land that was stolen from us.

For you everything would "reconfirm" what you want to believe.

And one more fact:
You are here for one single reason: To spread the Turkish propaganda online hoping that you can keep our land that is currently illegally occupied.

The fact that you use a member that you don't even know if he is what he claims he is (he could even be you with a different nick name) as an excuse for violating the human rights of 700.000 people is just one more proof for your aim in this forum.

For this reason there is absolutely nothing to talk with people like you. Part of Republic of Cyprus is under illegal Turkish occupation and Republic of Cyprus will do everything it can to liberate its own land. You can believe that Cyprus should be partitioned for your own benefit and on our loss, but this racist, criminal and illegal viewpoint that you have is totally irrelevant. What is relevant are the 40.000 Turkish troops, not your "viewpoint".

So the question is: How will the Turkish troops be forced out of Cyprus?

I believe that blocking Turkey out of EU is the right first step. If this is done in the right way, the economy of Turkey will crash and we can see a rise of the islamist fanatics. The relationship of Turkey with EU and especially some of the key countries like France are worsening. We should push this to the limit and take advantage of it to liberate our country.

Without the support of the west Turkey can turn from something to a big fat ZERO very fast. Cyprus will be liberated from the illegal Turkish occupation either some criminals like it or not.

I believe this should be the kind of discussions we should have in the "Cyprus Problem" forum, because this is what matters. We heard your racist, criminal supporting viewpoint many times, but the fact is that your viewpoint is irrelevant since you have no right to demand the partition of Cyprus.

We take it as a fact that many TCs have the "partitionist viewpoint", and we move on, on the ways we should act to liberate our country. Beyond that what are you arguing about? To convince us that we should give up and gift to you the land you stole from us? Obviously you can not achieve that.

At the same time since it is obvious you want to gain on out loss, there is no way for us to convince you to change your mind and stop supporting the illegalities against us. Therefore there is no point of any discussions with you. If you just want to spread your propaganda go do it elsewhere.

[zan]

Alexis, I hope you don't mind me saying but that comment about me not mentioning in detail about GC deaths is uncalled for. If I am talking to someone here, or any other forum, that I think would have to have those obvious points made to them, then I would but as I appreciated that you personally would already have known those facts I left them out. I am not in the business of claiming numbers make a blind bit of difference to the situation we find our selves in today. All this could have happened yesterday with only a broken finger nail to show for it and it would not make a difference. The sticking point is where do we go from here. My thoughts differ from yours, it seems, only on this point.

As for genocide then yes if what the Greeks did is genocide then the same goes for the Turks and visa versa. If we agree that it was an act of war then ditto. These words are used as a defence against the accusation and I will be seen to use them as needed. Otherwise they mean nothing. The point is people were killed.

Hi Zan,

Having read most of your posts there is no doubt in mind that you understand the events of 1963-1974, so I am sorry if I came across a bit unfairly. I do get agitated though when the Cyprus Problem is continually classed as history starting in 1963 for TCs and 1974 for GCs especially by non-Cypriots, the point is the Cyprob is not as black and white as that and to see its roots you need to go as far back as the 1920s and folow the history of Greece and Turkey as well.

You are quite right that people were killed - and this should never be forgotten. The prevailing point I am trying to put across (without getting engrossed in the details) is that I feel it is destructive to draw parallels between a 'genocide' such as the holocaust and the type of conflict and attrocities that we have seen in Cyprus. And in this respect the absolute numbers that were killed is important. In the UK if you talk about genocide you conjure up images of death camps, systematic amassing and transportation of people to camps, slave labour and the like. As you (and I) pointed out some aspects of this has happened at times during the Cyprus conflict but at nowhere near the scale or the planned and systematic approach that would make it genocide, and that was my main point. I am not going to sit here and argue against the fact that entire TC villages were wiped out or that there were individuals (we know Samson for sure) that would have liked to wipe out the TC population, I am here to talk about the facts of what happened in Cyprus and to look forward into the future. The problem comes with reconciliation. How are we possibly going to reconcile our differences when we accuse each other of the most heinous crimes known to man? Is it not good enough for us to put the past behind and rebuild for a prosperous future, but knowing the scale of exactly what did happen in the past? Accusations of genocide only make it easier for people to justify other crimes and the need for some kind of vengeance or reparations. Recognising that we have wronged each other, in different ways perhaps, but that we were not the only ones to suffer or to have made mistakes that lead to suffering of others and acknowledging this is the only way forward.
I also agree that numbers make no blind bit of difference today and that if even one person was killed it means that the matter is utterly serious. Where numbers do make a difference is in defining whether something is genocide or not. Anyways, enough about genocide it is neither constructive nor (in this case imo) accurate.

Thanks Alexis, your words are a great comfort in that, even if a solution is never found, or at least in my life time, that there are peole like your self out there that are humane in their thoughts.

[zan]

Piratis wrote:

The fact that you use a member that you don't even know if he is what he claims he is (he could even be you with a different nick name) as an excuse for violating the human rights of 700.000 people is just one more proof for your aim in this forum.

If you are talking about me in that statement the only objection I have is that I was here long before VP and if anything, he is me and not me him.

[Kifeas]

I am not going to sit here and argue against the fact that entire TC villages were wiped out...

In the more than 25 years that I read about the Cyprus problem and the history of this country, nowhere in the few tens of books and other material that I have gone through and researched have I ever come across such a case in which entire TC villages were wiped out by GCs. Can you please give me the list with the names of such TC villages that have been "entirely wiped out," because the about 750-800 TCs that have been killed during 1964-1967 in Cyprus, and even if you add the additional 350-400 GCs that were also killed during the same period, they hardly all together make up or exceed the population of just one medium size village. So far I knew that the events during the above period were well spread out all around Cyprus, and not just in one or two single villages out of the more than 600 villages and towns that Cyprus has. Can you please provide your sources that justify such a claim (Gibbon’s “the genocide files” excluded?)

[Piratis]

Piratis wrote:

The fact that you use a member that you don't even know if he is what he claims he is (he could even be you with a different nick name) as an excuse for violating the human rights of 700.000 people is just one more proof for your aim in this forum.

If you are talking about me in that statement the only objection I have is that I was here long before VP and if anything, he is me and not me him.

I was not talking about you but about Klik. Viewpoint is trying to turn everything as an excuse for illegalities enforced in Cyprus by Turkey, even the "arguments" of a member that he can't even know who and what that person really is.

Viewpoint (and some others) are looking for excuses for the illegalities they support and nothing else. Excusing the illegalities and promoting partition is the sole reason some TCs participate in this forum.

Based on this there can really be no discussion with them. Just to note their point of view(knowing that it is supported by some percentage of TCs) and move on in our effort to find a solution (=legality, democracy, human rights) to the Cyprus issue.

Viewpoint, zan and anybody else is allowed to have his own opinion, but nobody is allowed to act in illegal and criminal ways against Republic of Cyprus. If some of RoCs citizens do act in this criminal way then RoC will deal with this internal issue once the occupation of Cyprus by Turkey is over. Hopefully by that time Viewpoint etc will realize their mistake of supporting illegalities and crimes and the Republic of Cyprus will forgive them for the sake of leaving the past behind and moving ahead, finally with democracy and human rights for all Cypriots without discriminations.

[Viewpoint]

Piratis here we go again we have all heard it before you sound like a broken record the only thing you have said of worth is;

Viewpoint, zan and anybody else is allowed to have his own opinion,

and this is what we express and will continue to express on this forum whether you like it or not.

The rest is of what you state is crap and unless we are able to bring about a formula that will allow us to live together as equals and without the dominance of the larger population of GCs over TCs then no deal. We have to have a mechanism that will ensure equality not only between individuals but also communities. Both the the TRNC and "RoC" will be scrapped and a new level playing field will be put in place where in a new United Cyprus both states will be equals and decisions will be made jointly not forced on either community against their will.

The land issue which is paramount to you is easily resolved once the above structure in put in place and once you can accept that we are equals and you will have to share the whole of a united Cyprus with us and not have a GC state where TCs are just another minority. If you continue to pursue this ideology you are doomed to staying in 63% of the island and never returning home. We to will just like you use everything within our means to work against your actions via the EU and isolation pressure just like we did under more sever conditions in the 1960s and in 1974. So don't just hurl your empty threats about the swing in power or Turkey being refused EU entry do it, do your worst but don't expect us to sit and wait for the consequences we to will again rise to the challenge as we did in the past being forced to take actions which I am sure you will not to be happy with as you are today.

So Piratis get over yourself and find ways to create a solution/mechanism that will make both sides commit to a plan that will either unite this island or just admit defeat like me and many other Cypriots on both sides and accept that agreed division is the best alternative to wrangling on for unforeseeable future.