Cyprus-Forum.com

[Natty]

So the story after independence...

Cyprus gained its independence from the U.K. in 1960 after an anti-British campain by the Greek Cypriot EOKA (National Organisation of Cypriot Fighters) a guerrilla group which desired political union with Greece (or enosis). Archbishop Makarios, a charismatic religious and political leader was elected president.

Shortly after the founding of the republic serious differences arose between the two communities about the implementation and interpretation of the constitution. The Greek Cypriots argued that the complex mechanisms introduced to protect Turkish Cypriot interests were obstacles to efficient government. In November 1963 President Makarios advanced a series of constitutional amendments designed to elminate some of these special provisions. The Turkish Cypriots opposed such changes. The confrontation prompted widespread intercommunal fighting in December 1963 after which Turkish Cypriot participation in the central government ceased. UN peacekeepers were deployed on the island in 1964. Following another outbreak of intercommunal violence in 1967-68 a Turkish Cypriot provisional administration was formed.

In July 1974 the military junta in Athens sponsored a coup led by extremist Greek Cypriots hostile to Makarios for his alleged pro-communist leanings and for his perceived abandonment of enosis. Turkey citing the 1960 Treaty of Guarantee intervened militarily to protect Turkish Cypriots.

So, i hope this makes it clear to everyone...and please, let's take note of the facts...

taken from World66.Com, a travel site which includes the histories of nearly all the countries and regions of the world.

Hey Kartal_Aetos, that sounds okay, although I think the last line might cause a bit controversy...

[G.Man]

the main reason was the protection of the TC community and they had a right to intervene...Its a part of the 1960 Treaty of Guarantee...and they have a right to remain until the TC community on the island are guaranteed wellbeing...so far, they have not been

Here is the Treaty of Gurantee:

Treaty of Guarantee between the Republic of Cyprus and Greece, the United Kingdom and Turkey

The Republic of Cyprus of the one part, and Greece, the United Kingdom and Turkey of the other part:-
I. Considering that the recognition and maintenance of the independence, territorial integrity and security of the Republic of Cyprus, as established and regulated by the basic articles of its Constitution, are in their common interest;
II. Desiring to co-operate to ensure that the provisions of the aforesaid Constitution shall be respected:
Have agreed as follows:
ARTICLE 1
The Republic of Cyprus undertakes to ensure the maintenance of its independence, territorial integrity and security, as well as respect for its Constitution. It undertakes not to participate, in whole or in part, in any political or economic union with any State whatsoever. With this intent it prohibits all activity tending to promote directly or indirectly either union or partition of the Island.
ARTICLE 2
Greece the United Kingdom and Turkey, taking note of the undertakings by the Republic of Cyprus embodied in Article 1, recognize and guarantee the independence, territorial integrity and security of the Republic of Cyprus, and also the provisions of the basic articles of its Constitution. They likewise undertake to prohibit, as far as lies within their power, all activity having the object of promoting directly or indirectly either the union of the Republic of Cyprus with any other State, or the partition of the Island.
ARTICLE 3
In the event of any breach of the provisions of the present Treaty, Greece, the United Kingdom, and Turkey undertake to consult together, with a view to making representations, or taking the necessary steps to ensure observance of those provisions. In so far as common or concerted action may prove impossible, each of the three guaranteeing Powers reserves the right to take action with the sole aim Of re-establishing the state of affairs established by the present Treaty.
ARTICLE 4
The present Treaty shall enter into force on signature. The High Contracting Parties undertake to register the present Treaty at the earliest possible date with the Secretariat of the United Nations, in accordance vith the provisions of Article 102 of the Chapter.

So Turkey had the right to intervene ONLY to restore the independence and territorial integrity of Cyprus. What they did was the exact opposite grossly violating the Treaty of Guarantee which is explicitly prohibiting partition.

The only way for us all to live together peacefully is for us to go back to the original RoC constitution without the changes Makarios had proposed

I 100% agree with you.

This of course doesn't mean that we should stuck forever with 1960 agreements without a single modification. Things change for the better and all countries should make reforms that would make their systems better. EU for example would require several reforms from a system that is 46 years old.

The treaty of guarantee also prohibited Union with Greece...

as you have so kindly bolded....

So please Piratis, tell the whole story, not half of it...

[Strahd]

The treaty of guarantee also prohibited Union with Greece...

as you have so kindly bolded....

So please Piratis, tell the whole story, not half of it...

No it did not. If the people of Cyprus democratically and according to the constitutional procedures decided that Union with Greece or Botswana is what they want it is their fundamental human right of self determination.

[zan]

The treaty of guarantee also prohibited Union with Greece...

as you have so kindly bolded....

So please Piratis, tell the whole story, not half of it...

No it did not. If the people of Cyprus democratically and according to the constitutional procedures decided that Union with Greece or Botswana is what they want it is their fundamental human right of self determination.

Yes democratically as in the 1960 constitution with the veto in place. Makarios tried to by pass the constitution with the aid of EOKA and by murder. How does that fit into your democratic definition.

With this intent it prohibits all activity tending to promote directly or indirectly either union or partition of the Island.

[Kartal_Aetos]

Zan is right Strahd, union was prohibited and if any such action was taken by Greece or Turkey, the other 'motherland' had right to intervene to stop it according to the Treaty of Guarantee...

But Zan, Strahd is correct also as if the people voted for union with anywhere they would have got it. If ALL the TC's voted for union with Greece also, what does Turkey have to protect?

Anyway, I believe it was dentash who said that if Makarios wanted enosis in simple democratic ways he should have included TCs rather than try to exclude them from GCs and treat them just the same and respect their wishes to keep the constitution the way it was so that TCs trust him...Then he could have won the hearts of everyone and done a referandum for the union and perhaps then it would have happened...

[Kartal_Aetos]

So the story after independence...

Cyprus gained its independence from the U.K. in 1960 after an anti-British campain by the Greek Cypriot EOKA (National Organisation of Cypriot Fighters) a guerrilla group which desired political union with Greece (or enosis). Archbishop Makarios, a charismatic religious and political leader was elected president.

Shortly after the founding of the republic serious differences arose between the two communities about the implementation and interpretation of the constitution. The Greek Cypriots argued that the complex mechanisms introduced to protect Turkish Cypriot interests were obstacles to efficient government. In November 1963 President Makarios advanced a series of constitutional amendments designed to elminate some of these special provisions. The Turkish Cypriots opposed such changes. The confrontation prompted widespread intercommunal fighting in December 1963 after which Turkish Cypriot participation in the central government ceased. UN peacekeepers were deployed on the island in 1964. Following another outbreak of intercommunal violence in 1967-68 a Turkish Cypriot provisional administration was formed.

In July 1974 the military junta in Athens sponsored a coup led by extremist Greek Cypriots hostile to Makarios for his alleged pro-communist leanings and for his perceived abandonment of enosis. Turkey citing the 1960 Treaty of Guarantee intervened militarily to protect Turkish Cypriots.

So, i hope this makes it clear to everyone...and please, let's take note of the facts...

taken from World66.Com, a travel site which includes the histories of nearly all the countries and regions of the world.

Hey Kartal_Aetos, that sounds okay, although I think the last line might cause a bit controversy...

well natty, i think it all comes down to how you look at it...The article itself doesn't claim that turkey was right or wrong to cite the 1960 ToG and i think most people here will agree, that regardless of whether it was an excuse and opportunity or whether they just felt like fuck it, lets go get cyprus back for the ottomans, that the reason given by Turkey was to protect the TCs...which is true...that was their reason...you can see it as an excuse or actually as the reason. It is irrelevant to the credibility of the last paragraph as what it states is true...they came, citing the 1960 ToG saying that they were there to protect TC's

[cypezokyli]

ah, but the thing is the Greeks also tried the same with enosis...it's just that the Greeks failed and Turkey succeeded...I dont see any GC's hating Greece...and come on, they would still be there too...lol...

And like Cypezokyli said, it is the way you interpret it...you interpret that the main reason was strategic interests, but i interpret that strategic interests were always there, but this was not the main reason...the main reason was the protection of the TC community and they had a right to intervene...Its a part of the 1960 Treaty of Guarantee...and they have a right to remain until the TC community on the island are guaranteed wellbeing...so far, they have not been...The only way for us all to live together peacefully is for us to go back to the original RoC constitution without the changes Makarios had proposed...I am all in favour for it and i honestly dont believe there is another way...No turkish soldiers, no nothing...RoC run by Cypriots...both community's safety secured...

oh, there is no doubt that the greeks (junta) messed up the cyppro really bad.
but staying on the original question.
it is good that we agree that startegic interests played a significant role.
now the two typical questions you would get from a gc are :
- even if we accept the right of intervention (which is heavily debatable) , then the turkish intervention should have stopped after the constitutional order was restored. this happenned a couple of day after the invasion.
- how can the second part of the invasion be justified ?


now, other targets that turkey might have had. to create a fait accompli , (landwise) that would force the gcs to accept a federal solution which was for them an anathema. and this is not because a federal state has no advantages, but bc in the case of cyprus, creating a federal state could only be achieved at a huge humanitarian cost.

on the matter of the 1960 constitution. believe me, the gcs would be jumping around in joy if the tcs accepted such an outcome.

lastly , for makarios 13 points. there is no doubt that as a political decision, it can be recorded as one of makarios biggest mistakes. discussing with some tcs, they argue that : 2-3 points were /are unacceptable since they were changing the essence of the consitution. the other 10 or so points they have no problem accepting. a couple are completely not significant.
remember that during the discussions of clerides and denktas between 67-73, denktas accepted most of the 13 points.

[Kartal_Aetos]

Cypezokyli, the constitution was in order but the head of cyprus was STILL a pro-enosis leader...it would be foolish to leave the TCs in his hands...

yes, most of the points were acceptable...BUT it was not acceptable to change the points that protected the wellbeing of the TCs and this makes it VERY significant...and it wasn't actually denktas who accepted or rejected...Our leader was Dr. Fazil Kucuk not important really but thought id add that in so anyway, yes, those few points are very significant and they do change the essence of the constitution...If there was a leader in a united cyprus, and the leader was a TC...who was pro-unification with turkey...and the TCs made the majority of the island...and all of a sudden this TC leader proposed to make changes to the constitution and remove parts that protected you, as a GC...wouldn't you be VERY worried? im pretty sure you wouldn't allow these changes to be made either...

[cypezokyli]

to be really exact, it was turkey that first rejected those points
minor but significant detail...

no matter what, the 13 points were a stupid idea.

[Kartal_Aetos]

Is there anyone who would actually oppose to going back to the old constitution to reunite cyprus??? maybe we dont need an annan plan...maybe we dont need any plan...maybe all we need is to go back to where we were and start over, forgetting the events of the past 32 years?