Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

Kikapu, even after 1960 the Turks have most of the blame.

They are occupying our country for 32 years. Thats the 70% of the time since the 1960. As far as casualties go, during the intercommunal conflict a some 100s of people from both sides got killed. However in 1974 6000 GCs got killed and 200.000 have been ethnically cleansed. The number of TC casualties is nowhere near that number.

What I said is that Turks remember only a tiny part of history from 1960-1974, everything before that is "too old" and everything after that is "excused" for them, in a lame attempt to excuse even more crimes against us like they did for the most part of our common history on this island.

So do all the efforts to erase the parts of history that you want to hide to serve your propaganda and excuse the crimes you continue to commit against us as we speak. You are writing history as we speak, and the history you write today is no different than the usual Turkish History. You are again occupying lands that do not belong to you, violating international law and human rights. The usual Turkish practices.

[Viewpoint]

Piratis

They are occupying our country for 32 years. Thats the 70% of the time since the 1960. As far as casualties go, during the intercommunal conflict a some 100s of people from both sides got killed. However in 1974 6000 GCs got killed and 200.000 have been ethnically cleansed. The number of TC casualties is nowhere near that number.

You seem to insist on upon apportionig amount of blame according to the number of casulties and refugees as I have asked you before please work out the % as per the population of the time, you will see who suffered more or is more to blame according your warped logic.

(PS dont forget to allow for 2000/2500 civilians and soldiers killed by the Greek Coup enosis supporters)

[zan]

Kikapu, even after 1960 the Turks have most of the blame.

What I said is that Turks remember only a tiny part of history from 1960-1974, everything before that is "too old" and everything after that is "excused" for them, in a lame attempt to excuse even more crimes against us like they did for the most part of our common history on this island.

There is something wrong with these two statements but I cant quite put my finger on it.

[Piratis]

You seem to insist on upon apportionig amount of blame according to the number of casulties and refugees as I have asked you before please work out the % as per the population of the time, you will see who suffered more or is more to blame according your warped logic.

(PS dont forget to allow for 2000/2500 civilians and soldiers killed by the Greek Coup enosis supporters)

Funny that you add the casualties of the Turkish invading forces in your number of casualties! As if we were not supposed to protect our country from the invasion.

And the blame is appropriated based on who was forcing illegalities and crimes in Cyprus. Do you deny that for the most part of our history it was the Turks?

[zan]

You seem to insist on upon apportionig amount of blame according to the number of casulties and refugees as I have asked you before please work out the % as per the population of the time, you will see who suffered more or is more to blame according your warped logic.

(PS dont forget to allow for 2000/2500 civilians and soldiers killed by the Greek Coup enosis supporters)

Funny that you add the casualties of the Turkish invading forces in your number of casualties! As if we were not supposed to protect our country from the invasion.

And the blame is appropriated based on who was forcing illegalities and crimes in Cyprus. Do you deny that for the most part of our history it was the Turks?

No it is based on the stupidity and dictatorship of a GC educated in America with delusions of grandeur, Makarios.

[Viewpoint]

You seem to insist on upon apportionig amount of blame according to the number of casulties and refugees as I have asked you before please work out the % as per the population of the time, you will see who suffered more or is more to blame according your warped logic.

(PS dont forget to allow for 2000/2500 civilians and soldiers killed by the Greek Coup enosis supporters)

Funny that you add the casualties of the Turkish invading forces in your number of casualties! As if we were not supposed to protect our country from the invasion.

And the blame is appropriated based on who was forcing illegalities and crimes in Cyprus. Do you deny that for the most part of our history it was the Turks?

Where do I give you our figure? the 2000/2500 is the number included in the 6000 you always quote, these people were not killed by us but your own enosis supporters.

Can you give us all the percentages Piratis you seem to be avoiding the result?????

[Kikapu]

I think EVERYONE shouldn't per Se forget the past, but forgive it so we can move forward. It seems that there aren't many people willing to do that on either side, which is very very sad. We all suffered, we all lost, but if we continue living in the past, we have no future.

Andri_cy,

I don't know how else to get through to some people anymore. I told Piratis that there is plenty of blame to go around since 1960, but that is not good enough for him. It turns out, some people on both sides are not willing to accept any responsibility, unless one side accepts more "wrong doings" than the other side, in order to gain the "moral superiority".

I hate to give the bad news to everyone, but we have all failed in the "moral superiority".

[Sotos]

unless one side accepts more "wrong doings" than the other side

And what if one side made more "wrong doings" than the other? Are you saying that the wrong doings are 50%-50%? I don't think so! If 30 more years of occupation pass you will still say that both sides did the same amount of wrong doings? So the Turks now can do as much wrong doings as they want then?

[Kikapu]

unless one side accepts more "wrong doings" than the other side

And what if one side made more "wrong doings" than the other? Are you saying that the wrong doings are 50%-50%? I don't think so! If 30 more years of occupation pass you will still say that both sides did the same amount of wrong doings? So the Turks now can do as much wrong doings as they want then?

You tell me. If both sides wanted to have peace tomorrow and wanted to forgive and forget for all the past "wrong doings", what do you intend to do, bring out your calculator and start itemizing everything one by one. What is the purpose of forgiving and forgetting if that is the case. But then again, you're already expecting another 30 years of occupation, so I guess forgive and forget just has to wait until then. Even after 30 more years of occupation, forgive and forget can only be the final accountability to the past "wrong doings", so it does not change anything.

[Piratis]

If both sides wanted to have peace tomorrow and wanted to forgive and forget for all the past "wrong doings", what do you intend to do, bring out your calculator and start itemizing everything one by one.

The problem is that "if". Time after time I tried to say that we should leave the past behind and finally have in Cyprus a normal country like all other EU countries with no divisions, racist discriminations, human rights violations etc. And what do I get in return? Some Viewpoints and Zans telling me that this can not happen because supposedly the past shows that GCs are evil that can not be trusted.

They are trying to selectively use tiny parts of the past as an excuse for even more crimes and illegalities today and to present themselves as the victims and the GCs as the "evils". So you tell me what I should reply to those lame excuses Kikapu? Or maybe it is ok for Turks to use the past as an excuse for the crimes they commit as we speak and we should not even reply to their lame excuses?