Cyprus-Forum.com

[rolo]

yes piratis we know - the whole world knows - noone is in denial - the problem between the g and t on cyprus began with t invading conqering, ruling, supressing, exploiting, and all things that go on in all empires, including your own ancient one. But f me that was before the two world wars costing close one hundred million lives.

The whole world changed in 1945. The last of those great Empires started collapsing. But you, you didn't change, or understand that it had changed, instead you started on a Hellenic Mediterranean Empire rebuild. It was too nasty for the times. - Sorry mate Akritas to Isphestos was much too much.

[Piratis]

Oh, and in your life time you do not remember the TMT, the Turkish Cypriot terrorist organization killing 100s of inoccent Greek Cypriots? In your life time it was not the Turkish invasion that killed 6000 Greek Cypriots and ethnically cleansed 200.000? The declaration of the pseudo state called "trnc" on land illegally occupied from RoC was not in your life time?
Even during your life time the crimes committed against us by the Turks were multiple times more and for multiple times more time than the other way around. So why you remember only the selectively chosen parts that you choose? To excuse yet more crimes and illegalities against us?

And if we go by "lifetimes", in my lifetime Turkey and TCs have been the ONLY ones who are acting criminally and illegally in Cyprus, which was also the case for the 99% of our history before my lifetime started.

[rolo]

Turkish invasion that killed 6000 Greek Cypriots and ethnically cleansed 200.000?

what did you expect Piratis, had Turkey not come, had the coup succeeded, it was too much of a gamble. With your track record of 63 64 and General Grivas in 67 , genocide could not be ruled out.

You played your part in bringing it about.

[Piratis]

The whole world changed in 1945. The last of those great Empires started collapsing. But you, you didn't change, or understand that it had changed, instead you started on a Hellenic Mediterranean Empire rebuild. It was too nasty for the times. - Sorry mate Akritas to Isphestos was much too much.

What "Hellenic Mediterranean Empire" are you talking about? Are you dreaming?? The only empire that refused to change after WWII in Cyprus were the British, who refused to decolonize Cyprus and to give to Cypriots their right for self determination.

Empires are build by invading and stealing the land of others. Greek Cypriots, the great majority of the population of this island for millenia, had simply asked that the destiny of Cyprus should be decided in a democratic way by its own people, and not by colonialists.

[rolo]

Empires are build by invading and stealing the land of others. Greek Cypriots, the great majority of the population of this island for millenia, had simply asked that the destiny of Cyprus should be decided in a democratic way by its own people, and not by colonialists.

And union with Greece, being a part of Greece. The Greek Cypriots wanted Cyprus to be a part of Greece, not independence. Britain and the Turkish Cypriots never wanted to give Cyprus to Greece, You wanted to give Cyprus to Greece remember.

[Piratis]

Greek Cypriots are the 82% of the population.

According to the UN resolution about decolonization:

free association with an independent State, integration into an independent State, or independence as the three legitimate options of full self-government.

According to the UN, any of the 3 legitimate options should be taken by the population of the area being decolonized in a democratic way (= referendum).

The demand that the option for union with Greece should have been available to Cypriots to choose in a democratic way if they wanted, is a perfectly legitimate one.

The problems started when the same ones that oppressed and refused the freedom to Greek Cypriots for centuries, insisted to force their will against Cypriots even after the end of WWII.

Greek Cypriots had reacted, in some ways violently, but this was a direct result of centuries of oppression and against the insistence of some others to continue directing the destiny of our island against the will of the great majority of its own population.

[Viewpoint]

Piratis why do you blindly continue to push the angle of Ottoman opression, you conveneintly forget the British rule which was after the Turks. The 1960s agreements were the culmination of your years of strife and middle ground for both TCs and GCs to build a united Cyprus for everyone but as we all know you carried 3500 years of kin against us and decided you had the right to give Cyprus to Greece the very same day you signed and declared independence. As I have said many times before you played with a very dangerous bomb which you were time and time agained warned about, but no you always know best and hey presto that bomb exploded in your face and hurt innocent people, your own people. Now you cry wolf and try to blame all and sundry about the missed opportunity to create a united "RoC", the same constitiution which you tried to change and hand over to Greece is what you so dearly cling onto today and try to sell to the TCs, you yourself have time and time again stated come back come back knowing full well that within a very short period of time you will pursue the same objectives of your forefathers (Akritas) and alter the 1960s consititution to water down the rights of TCs. This is clear as crystal as you have stated many times the 1960s constitution grants us the minority to many rights. Well Piratis time to realize the situation has now changed and 1974 happened that bomb exploded in your face and you have to deal with it. There is a new state of play with 2 communities one in the south and one in the north, if you wish to reunite and share the whole island together you have to compromise and so do we. The only problem is what is that formula? that will allow both sides to commit, for 43 years we have been unable to find that formula, so until we do the status quo will continue.

[G.Man]

Piratis why do you blindly continue to push the angle of Ottoman opression, you conveneintly forget the British rule which was after the Turks. The 1960s agreements were the culmination of your years of strife and middle ground for both TCs and GCs to build a united Cyprus for everyone....

Tension began in 1963 when Makarios proposed thirteen amendments to the constitution of the Republic of Cyprus. Turkish Cypriots were opposed to the proposal since it removed some of the rights they received as part of the 1960 settlement. On 21 December 1963, clashes between Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots erupted, with Greek Cypriot paramilitaries slaughtering hundreds of Turkish Cypriots.

Only took 3 years to overturn the "cyprus for everyone" as well...

In a further attempt to gain Greek support for Serbia, Sir Edward Grey offered, on October 16, to transfer Cyprus to Greece. But eight days later the new Greek government of Alexander Zaimis, backed by the king, formally refused the offer

Cyprus could have had union with Greece had the Greeks honoured their treaty with Serbia instead of trying to remain Neutral in WW1..

Think of that Piratis, the Brits out long ago... If Greece had really wanted it..

[Strahd]

Cyprus could have had union with Greece had the Greeks honoured their treaty with Serbia instead of trying to remain Neutral in WW1..

Think of that Piratis, the Brits out long ago... If Greece had really wanted it..

It is really a wonder how the Turks can selectively take out parts of history so as to create a point. Greece was a very young country at the time. There was so much trouble inside it and it was so unorganised and a mess.
This was a VERY complex era in the history of the region in the midst of WW1

Greece's entry into the war on the Entente side was to be brought about only after a bitter and confused struggle inside Greece lasting for nearly three years in which Venizelos and the Allied powers were pitted against King Constantine. At first, Constantine and Venizelos agreed that Greece should remain neutral and that she must, above all, avoid a clash with the Allies, who controlled the seas round the long Greek coastline. But Constantine did not share Venizelos's belief that the Allies would win and that Greek neutrality should therefore be benevolent towards them. Both Venizelos and the Allies saw Greek neutrality as useful so long as it was a factor in keeping Bulgaria out of the war, but they believed that if Bulgaria attacked Serbia, Greece should go to the help of the Serbs in fulfilment of her treaty with them. Constantine, however, considered that Greece should remain neutral even if Serbia were attacked - - though he was also accused of waiting to bring Greece in on the German side at a favourable opportunity. The king's attitude was blamed on his personal germanophil preferences and the influence of his German wife; but a convincing case can also be made that, if he erred, it was not as a result of such personal reasons but from a mistaken view of the Greek national interest.

As long as there seemed to be any chance of keeping Bulgaria out of the German camp, by either threats or promises, Allied pressure on Greece to abandon her neutrality was not heavy and differences between King Constantine and Venizelos were not acute. But, as hope of influencing Bulgaria diminished, the Allies began a more serious effort to bring Greece into the war on their side, so as to provide support for Serbia. In January 1915, the British foreign secretary. Sir Edward Grey, offered Greece >important concessions on the coasts of Asia Minor= if she would join in a concerted Allied action in the Balkans. This was the first indication for the Greeks that the possibility of their acquiring territory in Asia Minor could be taken seriously. Venizelos pressed the king to accept this unexpected offer >in order to save the Greeks in Turkey and create a Great Greece which would include nearly all the provinces where Hellenism flourished through the long periods of its history=. He suggested ceding the port of Kavalla to Bulgaria in order to get the latter's co-operation. The king agreed to this, but the Bulgarians were not to be tempted.

The Allied offer, though not immediately accepted, was the beginning of the great Greek adventure which was to end, seven years later, in disaster in Anatolia. Even at this time, the Greek general staff under Colonel Metaxas warned that the conquest and control of western Asia Minor, which Venizelos envisaged claiming, would be an enterprise far beyond Greece's own resources. To accomplish his aims, Venizelos was counting on help from the Allies, and in a memorandum to the king on January 17, 1915, he wrote:

The proposal that very wide territorial concessions would be made to us in Asia Minor proves to me without the slightest doubt that the activities displayed by the New Hellas have attracted the confidence of certain Powers who consider her an important factor in the settlement of the Near East at the moment of collapse of the Turkish state. The support of these Powers provides us with the financial and diplomatic means to cope with the inherent difficulties of such a sudden increase of territory. Confident in this support, Greece can follow boldly the new and wonderful paths opening out for her.

On March 1,1915, Venizelos proposed that a Greek army corps be sent to support a renewed Allied naval attack on the Dardanelles. (The first attack, begun by warships on February 18,1915, had been inconclusive.) But the very next day, Russia vetoed the proposal, making it clear that in no circumstances would she allow Greece to take part in an Allied attack on Constantinople. The Russians now saw the Greeks as potential rivals in their own newly formulated claims to Constantinople and the Straits. The Greeks assured the British that their interest in Constantinople was merely sentimental: they only wanted to march into the city and be the first of the victorious troops to take Holy Communion in Saint Sophia. But they did not wish to stay there, and indeed would not accept the city if it were offered them. Such was the argument of the Venizelists, but the Russian veto was reinforced by the objections of the Greek general staff.

On March 6, King Constantine rejected the Venizelos proposal, whereupon the premier resigned. In new elections he was returned to power. When Bulgaria mobilised on September 12 - - a month after the Greek elections - -Venizelos asked for an Allied expeditionary force of 150,000 men to be sent to Greece. But the king objected that the landing of these forces would be a breach of Greek neutrality unless Bulgaria attacked Serbia to which Greece had treaty obligations. However, the Allied force was already at sea and, despite a formal protest from Venizelos, British and French troops landed at Salonika on October 5, 1915. The same day Venizelos resigned once more after the king, ignoring a parliamentary vote of confidence in the prime minister, had told him he opposed his policy of fulfilling the Serbian treaty.

In a further attempt to gain Greek support for Serbia, Sir Edward Grey offered, on October 16, to transfer Cyprus to Greece. But eight days later the new Greek government of Alexander Zaimis, backed by the king, formally refused the offer. The British foreign secretary's initiative, agreed upon at an informal meeting of the 'War Committee', was criticised both in the cabinet and in the House of Commons for having been taken without proper cabinet consultation. But, in fact, as Roy Jenkins points out in his biography of Asquith, the Cyprus offer had been thoroughly discussed by the cabinet in January 1915. George V's secretary, Lord Stamfordham, had then written to Asquith:

The King desires me to express the earnest hope that the Government will, on further consideration, decide to support Sir E. Grey's proposal and offer Cyprus to Greece on condition of her joining the Allies. . .. Financially Cyprus is I suppose a loss to this country. Strategically, HM understands that it has proved a failure, the harbours impracticable and ships obliged to lie off six miles from the coast."

The defeat and occupation of Serbia by the Austro-German armies forced the thirteen Allied divisions (eight French and five British) in Greece to withdraw into a fortified camp at Salonika and to treat the Greek government and army as potentially hostile. The Allies instituted a partial economic blockade of Greece, and sent an ultimatum to Athens demanding demobilisation of the Greek army, new elections and a truly neutral government.

[Alexis]

There is a rumour that he was actually double crossed by a Greek accountant that he hired. I have no idea if this is true or not. Do you have any information on this?

hi Zan,

Don't really have any more information on Mr Nadir. It would seem that nothing really new has happened since that article in the Guardian back in 2003. Some have speculated that he made the gesture of returning to the UK because of the Annan Plan which could have seen Cyprus unite and adopt an extradition treaty with the UK and so now that the status quo has been 'ratified' for a few more years to come he has gone back to laying low. As for the Greek accountant - I wouldn't be surprised, you know what these Greeks are like ...but no, seriously I didn't hear anything like that. Also bear in mind that it is unlikely that one accountant could fix the accounts of an entire corporation undetected, if there is any truth in this then this accountant was part of a much bigger conspiracy to sink Nadir. We have to remember that Polly Peck went bankrupt so it is not purely a fabrication of accounts they really were up sh!t creek. Probably what counts against Nadir most is the fact he fled the country, which comes close to incriminating him. Having said this he at least deserves a fair trial but he has not done himself any favours.