Cyprus-Forum.com

[reportfromcyprus]

EUropean citizens DO NOT WISH TO SEE TURKEY IN EU. Can you get it?

I hope you don't presume to speak for me.

Didn't you read the speech? Having Turkey as an EU member would provide stability in the region.

It would also improve human rights, including freedom of expression, women's rights and the general economy.

I happen to think those are positive things.

[Kikapu]

I don't know who you're trying to impress with your "Reverse Psychology" by wanting Turkey out of the EU. We all know, that's the last thing that you would want to happen to Turkey, being denied entry to EU, that is.!!

Tell me one reason why Cyprus would want Turkey in EU without a solution of the Cyprus problem?

I will tell you many reasons why Cyprus would not want Turkey in EU without a solution to the Cyprus problem:

.

In case you have forgotten, I have never favoured Turkey in joining the "EU Christian Club", not that Turkey even had a chance, but a Cypriot solution is based on Turkey joining the EU, and that's why you would want Turkey to join EU.

I still favour a Cypriot solution, despite No EU membership to Turkey.

Turkey should not become a slave to Brussels. Why be ONE of MANY when she can be the ONLY ONE separating "Radical Middle East" to "Peaceful Europe". She will use her geographical and political positions in her favour, and will benefit far more than being in the EU CLUB. EU will give her almost what she wants, despite objections from ROC. I'm afraid, ROC's cries will fall on EU's deaf ears. So that's why you will want Turkey in the EU.

So, when you give the reasons ( Good reasons too) as to why Turkey should not join EU, does that mean that you have accepted a "Partition" waiting to happen just around the corner.??

It is very simple:

No EU membership to Turkey, No solution to Cyprus.

What you want to say is:

No solution to Cyprus, No EU membership to Turkey.

At the rate you and the ROC are going, we will both get our wishes, except, I will not get the "solution to Cyprus" part.

[Piratis]

Personally I do not think the relation between EU accession of Turkey and the Cyprus problem will be enough to solve the Cyprus problem.

Simply the loss of EU membership will be one of the penalties Turkey will pay for her illegalities in Cyprus.

The solution to the Cyprus problem will come once the balance of power will change. And unlike you, I believe that Turkey outside the EU will mean less power for Turkey in the future and an increased chance that in the future Turkey could fall into radical west hating islamists, which would be the beginning of her end.

I wish Turkey will understand that being in conflict with Greece and Cyprus is not good for her interests. Having Cyprus and Greece as close allies would be much better for her. Too bad they can not see this.

[Viewpoint]

Personally I do not think the relation between EU accession of Turkey and the Cyprus problem will be enough to solve the Cyprus problem.

Simply the loss of EU membership will be one of the penalties Turkey will pay for her illegalities in Cyprus.

The solution to the Cyprus problem will come once the balance of power will change. And unlike you, I believe that Turkey outside the EU will mean less power for Turkey in the future and an increased chance that in the future Turkey could fall into radical west hating islamists, which would be the beginning of her end.

I wish Turkey will understand that being in conflict with Greece and Cyprus is not good for her interests. Having Cyprus and Greece as close allies would be much better for her. Too bad they can not see this.

Thats how you wish to see it, its doesnt necessarily make it true. You really need to re-evalute the GCs souths importance in the grand scheme of things and I can tell you it is not that high...the super powers will use you as they wish and you wont even feel it.

[stuballstu]

Piratis wrote

Personally I do not think the relation between EU accession of Turkey and the Cyprus problem will be enough to solve the Cyprus problem.

Simply the loss of EU membership will be one of the penalties Turkey will pay for her illegalities in Cyprus.

The solution to the Cyprus problem will come once the balance of power will change. And unlike you, I believe that Turkey outside the EU will mean less power for Turkey in the future and an increased chance that in the future Turkey could fall into radical west hating islamists, which would be the beginning of her end.

I wish Turkey will understand that being in conflict with Greece and Cyprus is not good for her interests. Having Cyprus and Greece as close allies would be much better for her. Too bad they can not see this.

Piratis

I feel compelled to point out some inaccuracies in what you are saying.

Firstly there is no way that Turkey will be allowed to complete EU accession if they never "recognise" the ROC. There is no way in the world that the EU will allow Turkey in to the EU without the Cyprob being dealt with.

Turkey's "illegalities" in Cyprus as you put it will have no bearing on the EU accession but you will find the core of the problem for the EU is the non recognition of an EU member state. Legalities and illegalities are nothing to do with the EU accession.

The solution to the Cyprus problem will come once the balance of power will change. And unlike you, I believe that Turkey outside the EU will mean less power for Turkey in the future and an increased chance that in the future Turkey could fall into radical west hating islamists, which would be the beginning of her end.

What do you mean when you say "the beginning of her end"?

Turkey inside the EU or wanting to join the EU will give the ROC government more leverage with Turkey hence taking away some of their power. A Turkey with no desire to join the EU would be disastrous for the ROC. Cant you remember in 2004 Papadopolous told the press that EU membership would give the ROC a better negotiationing position. Without Turkey wanting to be in the EU where is the better negotiating position?

I wish Turkey will understand that being in conflict with Greece and Cyprus is not good for her interests. Having Cyprus and Greece as close allies would be much better for her. Too bad they can not see this.

Too bad who cant see what. I am afraid you can not see the wood for the trees my friend. Relations between Turkey and Greece have improved dramatically over the last decade. Greece does support Turkeys EU application.

I came accross this article on the internet which makes interesting reading on your theory of Turkey-Greece relations.

'Greco-mania' in Turkey
Greek culture is gaining fans in Istanbul and on the country's west coast

This shop sells traditional Greek sweets on the Asia Minor coast. Many Turks are rediscovering Greek culture and remembering the years when they lived with Greeks in Istanbul and on the coast.

The Turks call the recent surge in cultural and social interest in their neighbor to the west 'Greek mania.'

Greek names are appearing on shop signs, hotels and restaurants. Interiors are designed with Hellenism in mind, featuring statues of ancient heroes or even imitations of icons of the Virgin Mary.

The songs of Haris Alexiou, Evanthia Reboutsika, Angela Dimitriou and Sakis Rouvas are echoing out of windows and blasting out of radios.

One radio producer even said that Greek music is not considered foreign.

In Istanbul, the phenomenon is linked with nostalgia for the good old days, when the city was a cosmopolitan mix of communities. This sense of whimsy has even spread down the west coast, where Greek communities thrived before the population exchange 80 years ago.

Just 15 years ago, tour guides would tell Greek tourists visiting the ruins of Ephesus that these ancient Greek towns had been settled by Ionians, a non-Greek tribe. Greek inscriptions were described as being written in 'ancient Turkish.'

Smyrna Greeks

Journalist Mine Kirikkanat, a Kemalist and sworn enemy of Islamic fundamentalists, has had a lot to do with this new attitude toward Greece.

Greeks are surprised that someone who is both a Kemalist and the daughter of an army officer would support Greece like this. But this mind-set is not limited to the Turkish middle classes, some of whom view the Greeks as intellectual and cultural equals.

'When they say they miss us, they mean they can't abide living alongside the Kurds and provincial Turks who took Greeks' place in the Phanar district and Pera and who are now in the majority,' said a civil service official who decided to become an Orthodox Christian even though he did not speak Greek.

'I consider myself Greek, although I have a Turkish name and Turkish is my mother tongue, because I feel closer to the West and reject anything to do with Islam,' added the civil servant, saying he did not tell people he was baptized because he did not want to deal with the repercussions.

The writer Orhan Pamuk has accused those nostalgic for the Istanbul Greeks of insincerity. The Armenian-Turkish journalist and publisher Hrant Dink, speaking at a conference, had accused the majority of 'treating us minorities like antiques,' adding that since the Turks couldn't make them leave, they were now trying to save the few who remained so Istanbul wouldn't lose its character.

Another Armenian, Sevan Nisanyan, the best-known writer of tourist guides to Turkey, explains that everything Greek is in fashion, particularly among the educated urban classes.

'It is no doubt a class phenomenon - and it is cool and chic to drink ouzo instead of raki, to listen to rebetika songs instead of Turkish art music,' he said. Nisanyan says the island of Tenedos in particular has become the focal point for Turks' fascination with all things Greek.

Journalist Aris Hadzistefanou, in his book 'Turkey, East of the EU,' explained the sociological nature of this latest fashion.

The name Pera is used by restaurants, hotels, art galleries and even grocery stores. One of the most trendy cafes in Yenikoy (Neohori) is the Nea Hora. Two Jews from Izmir have given the name 'Smyrna' to the new cafe-restaurant they have opened in the fashionable district of Jihangir.

Greek place names are being revived along the Aegean coast. Many hotels and shops bear the name Levissi or Makri in the towns that used to bear those names. Embroideries bearing the words 'Kali Mera' (Good day), or 'Kalo Pascha' (Happy Easter) grace the walls of a cafe in Alacata.

'Greeks are the Europeans best known to the Turks; they envy them and want to imitate them,' said one Turkish woman.

Another Turk, Mehmet, claims to be Greek.

'My family is from Crete. We were Greeks who converted to Islam under Ottoman rule,' he said.

A professor of sociology at a private university added: 'Look at me carefully. Do I look as if I am from Central Asia? We are descendants of all the people who lived in Asia Minor, those who converted to Islam and became Turkish. We are as Greek as you are on the other side of the Aegean, because we are the descendants of Asia Minor Greeks who converted.'

The aforementioned and other philhellenic Turks said they do not have the same reference points as other more Islamic-minded Turks.

'Im not saying that in order to claim another culture for myself,' the sociology professor continued.

'I simply want to remind my compatriots that these ancient monuments are ours and we should make sure they are protected. Our points of reference are not only Islam and [philosopher and cleric] Nasreddin Hodja, they are also Byzantium, the word Constantinople, ancient Rome and the Ionian philosophers.'

[Natty]

'Greco-mania' in Turkey
Greek culture is gaining fans in Istanbul and on the country's west coast

This shop sells traditional Greek sweets on the Asia Minor coast. Many Turks are rediscovering Greek culture and remembering the years when they lived with Greeks in Istanbul and on the coast.

The Turks call the recent surge in cultural and social interest in their neighbor to the west 'Greek mania.'

Greek names are appearing on shop signs, hotels and restaurants. Interiors are designed with Hellenism in mind, featuring statues of ancient heroes or even imitations of icons of the Virgin Mary.

The songs of Haris Alexiou, Evanthia Reboutsika, Angela Dimitriou and Sakis Rouvas are echoing out of windows and blasting out of radios.

One radio producer even said that Greek music is not considered foreign.

In Istanbul, the phenomenon is linked with nostalgia for the good old days, when the city was a cosmopolitan mix of communities. This sense of whimsy has even spread down the west coast, where Greek communities thrived before the population exchange 80 years ago.

Just 15 years ago, tour guides would tell Greek tourists visiting the ruins of Ephesus that these ancient Greek towns had been settled by Ionians, a non-Greek tribe. Greek inscriptions were described as being written in 'ancient Turkish.'

Smyrna Greeks

Journalist Mine Kirikkanat, a Kemalist and sworn enemy of Islamic fundamentalists, has had a lot to do with this new attitude toward Greece.

Greeks are surprised that someone who is both a Kemalist and the daughter of an army officer would support Greece like this. But this mind-set is not limited to the Turkish middle classes, some of whom view the Greeks as intellectual and cultural equals.

'When they say they miss us, they mean they can't abide living alongside the Kurds and provincial Turks who took Greeks' place in the Phanar district and Pera and who are now in the majority,' said a civil service official who decided to become an Orthodox Christian even though he did not speak Greek.

'I consider myself Greek, although I have a Turkish name and Turkish is my mother tongue, because I feel closer to the West and reject anything to do with Islam,' added the civil servant, saying he did not tell people he was baptized because he did not want to deal with the repercussions.

The writer Orhan Pamuk has accused those nostalgic for the Istanbul Greeks of insincerity. The Armenian-Turkish journalist and publisher Hrant Dink, speaking at a conference, had accused the majority of 'treating us minorities like antiques,' adding that since the Turks couldn't make them leave, they were now trying to save the few who remained so Istanbul wouldn't lose its character.

Another Armenian, Sevan Nisanyan, the best-known writer of tourist guides to Turkey, explains that everything Greek is in fashion, particularly among the educated urban classes.

'It is no doubt a class phenomenon - and it is cool and chic to drink ouzo instead of raki, to listen to rebetika songs instead of Turkish art music,' he said. Nisanyan says the island of Tenedos in particular has become the focal point for Turks' fascination with all things Greek.

Journalist Aris Hadzistefanou, in his book 'Turkey, East of the EU,' explained the sociological nature of this latest fashion.

The name Pera is used by restaurants, hotels, art galleries and even grocery stores. One of the most trendy cafes in Yenikoy (Neohori) is the Nea Hora. Two Jews from Izmir have given the name 'Smyrna' to the new cafe-restaurant they have opened in the fashionable district of Jihangir.

Greek place names are being revived along the Aegean coast. Many hotels and shops bear the name Levissi or Makri in the towns that used to bear those names. Embroideries bearing the words 'Kali Mera' (Good day), or 'Kalo Pascha' (Happy Easter) grace the walls of a cafe in Alacata.

'Greeks are the Europeans best known to the Turks; they envy them and want to imitate them,' said one Turkish woman.

Another Turk, Mehmet, claims to be Greek.

'My family is from Crete. We were Greeks who converted to Islam under Ottoman rule,' he said.

A professor of sociology at a private university added: 'Look at me carefully. Do I look as if I am from Central Asia? We are descendants of all the people who lived in Asia Minor, those who converted to Islam and became Turkish. We are as Greek as you are on the other side of the Aegean, because we are the descendants of Asia Minor Greeks who converted.'

The aforementioned and other philhellenic Turks said they do not have the same reference points as other more Islamic-minded Turks.

'Im not saying that in order to claim another culture for myself,' the sociology professor continued.

'I simply want to remind my compatriots that these ancient monuments are ours and we should make sure they are protected. Our points of reference are not only Islam and [philosopher and cleric] Nasreddin Hodja, they are also Byzantium, the word Constantinople, ancient Rome and the Ionian philosophers.'

Hi, I find this so refreshing....We should embrace each other's cultures (and differences...), because after all, both cultures are part of our collective history....

I mean, Greek Cypriots speak Turkish words, they listen to music, that could have either Greek or Turkish lyrics and it would be either Greek or Turkish, although maybe not exactly, but definitely similar (tsiftetelia springs to mind, and of course traditional Cypriot music...), they walk past mosques, etc....

Peace!

[MR-from-NG]

Hi, I find this so refreshing....We should embrace each other's cultures (and differences...), because after all, both cultures are part of our collective history....

I mean, Greek Cypriots speak Turkish words, they listen to music, that could have either Greek or Turkish lyrics and it would be either Greek or Turkish, although maybe not exactly, but definitely similar (tsiftetelia springs to mind, and of course traditional Cypriot music...), they walk past mosques, etc....

Peace!

Natty, We've always been in favour and embraced this idea. Guess who kicked us in the teeth and refused it?

[stuballstu]

I wonder why the likes of Piratis has chosen not to reply to my last post?

[andri_cy]

I guess we have to reply to every post so I am replying

[stuballstu]

Sorry Andri

I was not having a go at you.

Its just that there are certain contributors or indeed one moderator who is quite happy to be a "Mr Doom and Gloom".

The above article which i posted is a postive step in the right direction for Turkey - Greek relations. Some still live in the 1960's, 70's, 80's on this board and act as though Turks hate Greeks, Greeks hate Turks etc etc. In actual fact relations between Turkey and Greece have improved no end since then.

One thing i have noticed about this board is that when someone says positive things or chooses to put a positive "spin" on a thread it the thread ends. Its almost like its something they dont want to hear and would rather argue. Thats one of the reasons the Cyprob has lasted this long as they cant even agree to dis-agree with each other and then rather than blame themselves would much rather blame the British!