Cyprus-Forum.com

[Kikapu]

Kifeas,

I know you said you want to stay away from the Cyprus Forum until certain member/s were banned before returning back. Well, to be honest with you, it's getting a little boring around here without your participation. I get fed up now and again, but still want to make a contribution now and again, but you add a great deal in your writings to the Cyprus Problems.

Yes, I can read "Viewpoint's" and "Pyropolizer's" point of views, and "Piratis's" ancient history on Cyprus ( enough already ), but you give a very detailed information on the issues, that I enjoy reading.

A message to my TC friends. You may find Kifeas's remarks provocative when he is angered by some of your insensitive remarks. You don't have to like him what so ever, but you need to respect his situation, by not being able to have access to his land. You need to give compassion as you would expect for your selves, as we did, from 1963 to 1974. You cannot hold children of those who did not treat us well during those years, by telling him, you lost the war and now what was your parents is now mine, with the help of the 40,000 Turkish Troops. You cannot enjoy pleasure of someone else's pain and anguish they have in their hearts. He is after all, your fellow countryman. Go ahead and disagree with his point of view, but don't kick the man when he is down with his pain. I don't know him from any of you, but I have respect for him as a Human being, just as I would, to any of you, in a similar situation.

I ask all of you joining me to welcome Kifeas back, and let the "best man or woman" win the debates.

[miltiades]

Kikapu , what a touching post !! I agree wholeheartedly on your sentiments expressed concerning Kifeas.

[elko]

It is his prerogative to continue to contribute here or not. I joined this form a long time ago and after a short time I gave up in vain. Now I am back and somehow enjoying it. Otherwise I would not be here.

Cyprus Problem is a big political problem and if you try to reduce it simply to a legalistic point and claim land on a personal level, it is impossible to solve it. Ownership of land is a human right and so is the right to live. For me, the latter has priority over the former if the two right clash. Turkish Cypriots suffered great pains from 1963 to 1974 and now they continue to suffer under international isolations. EU is trying to lift these embargoes but Papadop is spoilt enough to claim that there are no embargoes.

I remember the days when Turkish Cypriots had to run for their lives in 1963. They were all ousted from the government. All the ports were under the control of the Greek Cypriots who would not allow any goods for Turkish Cypriots. The Turkish Crescent sent in aid, food and clothing and the Greek Cypriot govenment had the audacity to ask for customs duty.

Now it suits the Greek Cypriots to reduce the Cyprus problem to a simple legal point as if it is simply a matter of land ownership. This problem cannot be solved with such a simplistic approach.
ismet

[miltiades]

Elco , could it be that the overwhelming majority of Cypriots Greek and Turkish feel that much of their Island is under a foreign occupation ? Or do you think this is ultra simplistic .

[elko]

For the vast majority of Turkish Cypriots this is not so.
ismet

[Pyrpolizer]

Ownership of land is a human right and so is the right to live. For me, the latter has priority over the former if the two right clash.

Would you care to explain us how the right to ownership of ones land clashes with your right to live?

I ask all of you joining me to welcome Kifeas back

You are a very kind person Kikapu.

[elko]

Ownership of land is a human right and so is the right to live. For me, the latter has priority over the former if the two right clash.

Would you care to explain us how the right to ownership of ones land clashes with your right to live?

My pleasure pyro, as if you did not understand. As you were not living in Mars before, you must be aware of the events between 1963 and 1974 and the Greek Cypriot plans discovered in 1974 in connection with the annihilation of Turkish Cypriots.
Hence, for Turkish Cypriots the safety of their lives, the right to live without fear of getting murdered comes first. It is with the recognition of this right that "Bi-zonal and Bi-communal" nature of the future agreement has been settled. The Greek Cypriot has agreed to this too. That means not everybody will have the right to return as they please. That means that some will have to accept compensation in the form of money or in the form of another piece of land left behind by their Turkish Cypriot "brothers". Yes, we want to live as brothers but rebuilding confidence and trust will take time and it will be piece by piece.
During the bird flue scare, the action of Papadop government harassing the workers having to work in the south only reminded the old days when Turkish Cypriots were harassed at numerous check points under the guise of security. It took 10 hours to travel from Lefka to Nicosia where normally it would take only one hour. Of course the Greek Cypriot police had the right to search the whole bus thoroughly at every few miles and some of the young Greek Cypriots still try to justify this under "security". My foot!
ismet

[miltiades]

ismet wrote :
"""It took 10 hours to travel from Lefka to Nicosia where normally it would take only one hour. Of course the Greek Cypriot police had the right to search the whole bus thoroughly at every few miles and some of the young Greek Cypriots still try to justify this under "security". My foot! ""

That's a new one , who told you that , I thought only the Greeks loved mythology , but I see that you Elco is the master.
Here you are , unborn perhaps in 1963-74 armed with second hand unsubstantiated facts and you have turned them into reality.
Understand one thing. As I said earlier the vast majority of the indigenous population of Cyprus , G/Cs and T/Cs see Turkey as an occupying force.Also the entire world at large consider Turkey to be so. The ROC when mentioned is mentioned with inverted commas because it is not an entity as VP states many times but the only legal state recognised the world over. I'm a passionate Cypriot who feels that to succumb to accepting the existence as a legal entity of the "TRNC" Will be the end of mine and the majority aspirations of Cypriots for a united Cyprus .The "TRNC" exists only in the eyes of the creators the rest of the world does not recognise it , your currency is the Turkish Lira , your passports are those of a foreign country , you have no chance to exist as a separate state ever. Join the voices off the true Cypriots , your compatriots and let us be heard by our politicians , lets adopt the Cypriot native identity and discard the burden of motherland bullshit.

[elko]

miltiades wrote:

Here you are , unborn perhaps in 1963-74 armed with second hand unsubstantiated facts and you have turned them into reality.

Sorry to disappoint you but I am almost 65 and a Bafidi, so I know things first hand. I can keep on writing but I do not want to bore people with personal experiences. Let us keep it simple and decent without resorting to words like "bullshit". I am all for unification but only stage by stage. As long as most Greek Cypriots regard Cyprus as theirs with no proper power sharing with Turkish Cypriots, it is not on. Too much water has passed under the bridges, we have to rebuild by stages. The first and foremost importance is to re-educate your youth not to see Turkish Cypriots and Turks as enemies. You can neither separate Greek Cypriots from Greeks nor the Turkish Cypriots from Turks. You hit one and the other feels the pain. You cannot simply hit someone on the head and force them to a marriage. They either agree willingly or they keep separate.
When the doors opened, people thought that this would help the two sides to come together and build friendship. With Papadop and his likes in charge, the harassment and so at the gates only created the opposite. You have to match your words with deeds my friend. "One country, one people" are empty words at the moment.
ismet

[Viewpoint]

miltiades

ismet wrote :
"""It took 10 hours to travel from Lefka to Nicosia where normally it would take only one hour. Of course the Greek Cypriot police had the right to search the whole bus thoroughly at every few miles and some of the young Greek Cypriots still try to justify this under "security". My foot! ""

That's a new one , who told you that , I thought only the Greeks loved mythology , but I see that you Elco is the master.
Here you are , unborn perhaps in 1963-74 armed with second hand unsubstantiated facts and you have turned them into reality.

You are wrong my parents who are in their late 60s remember exactly the same problems which included discriminative and abusive actions against TCs. They were kep under the burning sun for hours for no real but being TCs travelling from one place to another.

Understand one thing. As I said earlier the vast majority of the indigenous population of Cyprus , G/Cs and T/Cs see Turkey as an occupying force.

Incorrect, the majority of TCs do not see Turkey as an invading force they seem them as peace keepers.

Also the entire world at large consider Turkey to be so. The ROC when mentioned is mentioned with inverted commas because it is not an entity as VP states many times but the only legal state recognised the world over. I'm a passionate Cypriot who feels that to succumb to accepting the existence as a legal entity of the "TRNC" Will be the end of mine and the majority aspirations of Cypriots for a united Cyprus .The "TRNC" exists only in the eyes of the creators the rest of the world does not recognise it , your currency is the Turkish Lira , your passports are those of a foreign country , you have no chance to exist as a separate state ever.

This may correct with he view that the "RoC" is recognized by the word but who really counts here? the partner being the TCs are the ones who do not acknowledge the "RoC" as representing them. The ironic this is that even with all its imperfections TCs prefer the TRNC to a GC run "RoC" ho yeah recognized by the world.

Join the voices off the true Cypriots , your compatriots and let us be heard by our politicians , lets adopt the Cypriot native identity and discard the burden of motherland bullshit.

Actions speak louder than words....all talk and no action makes "RoC" a very dull option.